Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-34 - 'conforming IPv6' - fe80::/10 vs fe80::/64
Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Wed, 10 April 2019 14:01 UTC
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To: Ole Troan <otroan@employees.org>
Cc: Pascal Thubert <pthubert@cisco.com>, ietf@ietf.org, its@ietf.org, int-dir@ietf.org, draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb.all@ietf.org, Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
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From: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>
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Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2019 16:01:36 +0200
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Subject: Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-34 - 'conforming IPv6' - fe80::/10 vs fe80::/64
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Le 10/04/2019 à 14:40, Ole Troan a écrit : >> You said: if OCB is still 48bit, and if there is bridging >> OCB-Ethernet, then no reason to be different than rfc2464. >> >> I said: OCB is still 48bit, but there is no bridging OCB-Ethernet. >> >> The conclusion is: there is reason to be different from RFC 2464. > > Why? > >> Now, you give a different conclusion. >> >> Excuse me, I would like to clarify this please? > > Clarify what? You said if OCB-Ethernet bridging then no need of update. Then you concluded differently. That needs clarification. > That a link-layer that looks an awfully lot like Ethernet It looks an awful lot like Ethernet, but it can not be bridged to it. The 'brctl' and 'brconf' software issue errors when trying to link OCB interface to Ethernet interface. > [That a link-layer that looks an awfully lot like Ethernet] should not > follow the 64-bit boundary and the definition of the link-local > address mapping of rfc2464? Section 4.5.1 is already clear on that. If OCB can not be bridged to Ethernet then OCB interfaces are free to have a 65bit IID, without fearing lack of interoperability to an Ethernet interface with 64bit IID. The IP forwarding does not care about IID length, and there is no bridging. > I think the only thing we are asking you is to change the following > paragraph: > > OLD: A subnet is formed by the external 802.11-OCB interfaces of > vehicles that are in close range (not by their in-vehicle > interfaces). This subnet MUST use at least the link-local prefix > fe80::/10 and the interfaces MUST be assigned IPv6 addresses of type > link-local. > > NEW: A subnet is formed by the external 802.11-OCB interfaces of > vehicles that are in close range (not by their in-vehicle > interfaces). A node MUST form a link-local address on this link. Makes sense, I will add it. Then somebody will ask what is the prefix length of the LL prefix on OCB? What reference should I give to the person asking? The reference is RFC2464 that says 64bit IID. But that is for Ethernet and EThernet can not be bridged to OCB. > Not quite sure what value that paragraph adds in the first place. You > could probable remove it. The value in mentioning /10 is that it works on OCB (it works also on Ethernet but not on all OSs, and so it may risk violating a section). Alex > > Cheers, Ole > > >> >> Alex >> >> Le 10/04/2019 à 12:28, Ole Troan a écrit : >>> Alexandre, Right, so it doesn’t sound like you have any reason to >>> be different from RFC2464. Just reference or copy that text >>> (section 5, rfc2464). Ole >>>> On 10 Apr 2019, at 11:22, Alexandre Petrescu >>>> <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Le 10/04/2019 à 11:04, Ole Troan a écrit : >>>>>>>>> "At least" does not mean "the value should be at >>>>>>>>> least 10" in that phrase. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Do you think we should say otherwise? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To me there is nothing in the actual text to tell me >>>>>>>> that "at least" qualifies the "/10". I think you could >>>>>>>> rephrase as "This subnet's prefix MUST lie within the >>>>>>>> link-local prefix fe80::/10 ..." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> However, see Jinmei's messages about conformance with >>>>>>>> RFC 4291. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think there might be unexpected side effects from >>>>>>>> using an address like fe80:1::1. What if some code uses >>>>>>>> matching with fe80::/64 to test if an address is >>>>>>>> link-local? I agree that would be faulty code, but you >>>>>>>> would be the first to discover it. >>>>>>> Indeed. If you absoultely must cut and paste text from >>>>>>> 2464: >>>>>> >>>>>> YEs, that is how we started. We cut and paste from 2464. >>>>>> >>>>>>> 5. Link-Local Addresses The IPv6 link-local address >>>>>>> [AARCH] for an Ethernet interface is formed by appending >>>>>>> the Interface Identifier, as defined above, to the prefix >>>>>>> FE80::/64. 10 bits 54 bits 64 >>>>>>> bits >>>>>>> +----------+-----------------------+----------------------------+ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> |1111111010| (zeros) | Interface Identifier | >>>>>>> +----------+-----------------------+----------------------------+ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I presume there is support for bridging 802.11p and other 802.3 links? >>>> >>>> In the IP-OBUs that I know there is IP forwarding between >>>> 802.11-OCB (earlier 802.11p) and 802.3, not bridging. >>>> >>>> In some IP-OBU (Internet Protocol On-Board Unit) some non-OCB >>>> interfaces are indeed bridged. E.g. the Ethernet interface is >>>> bridged to the WiFi interface; that helps with DHCP, tcpdump >>>> and others to see one a single - bridged - interface. >>>> >>>> Bridging may be, but it is not a MUST. There is no necessarily >>>> any bridging between the 802.11-OCB interface and other >>>> interface, neither bridging between the multiple 802.11-OCB >>>> interfaces that might be present in the same computer. >>>> >>>> Do you assume bridging of 802.11-OCB interface to Ethernet >>>> interface is always there? >>>> >>>> Note: I also heard many comments suggesting that EAL is akin to >>>> 'bridging'. I do not know whether you refer to that >>>> perspective. If yes, we can discuss it separately. >>>> >>>> Alex >>>> >>>> [...] >>>> >>>>>>> And that the MAC address length of this link type is also >>>>>>> 48 bits? >>>>>> >>>>>> YEs, the length of MAC address on 802.11 mode OCB is also >>>>>> 48. >>>>>> >>>>>>> If the two assumptions above hold, then I see zero >>>>>>> justification for pushing the 64 bit boundary in this >>>>>>> draft. >>>>>> >>>>>> Let me try to understand the first assumption. >>>>> Ole >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ Int-dir mailing >>>> list Int-dir@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-dir >> >> _______________________________________________ Int-dir mailing >> list Int-dir@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-dir > >
- [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-ipwav… Pascal Thubert
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Alexandre PETRESCU
- Re: [Int-dir] [ipwave] Intdir early review of dra… Abdussalam Baryun
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… NABIL BENAMAR
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] [ipwave] Intdir early review of dra… Charlie Perkins
- Re: [Int-dir] [ipwave] Intdir early review of dra… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Rob Wilton (rwilton)
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… 神明達哉
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… 神明達哉
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Ole Troan
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Ole Troan
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Ole Troan
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Ole Troan
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… NABIL BENAMAR
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Ole Troan
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… 神明達哉
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… 神明達哉
- Re: [Int-dir] [ipwave] Intdir early review of dra… Abdussalam Baryun
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Alexandre PETRESCU
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Ole Troan
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Alexandre Petrescu
- [Int-dir] IPv6-over-foo and Addressing Architectu… Suresh Krishnan
- Re: [Int-dir] IPv6-over-foo and Addressing Archit… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] [ipwave] Intdir early review of dra… William Whyte
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… 神明達哉
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] [ipwave] Intdir early review of dra… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] about V2I to traffic lights control… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] [ipwave] Intdir early review of dra… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Int-dir] [ipwave] Intdir early review of dra… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-i… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] [ipwave] Intdir early review of dra… Abdussalam Baryun
- Re: [Int-dir] [ipwave] Intdir early review of dra… Abdussalam Baryun
- Re: [Int-dir] [ipwave] Intdir early review of dra… NABIL BENAMAR
- Re: [Int-dir] [ipwave] Intdir early review of dra… Nabil Benamar
- Re: [Int-dir] [ipwave] Intdir early review of dra… Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Int-dir] [ipwave] Intdir early review of dra… NABIL BENAMAR
- Re: [Int-dir] [ipwave] Intdir early review of dra… Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Int-dir] [ipwave] Intdir early review of dra… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] [ipwave] Intdir early review of dra… Alexandre Petrescu
- [Int-dir] link-local text (Re: Intdir early revie… 神明達哉
- Re: [Int-dir] [ipwave] Intdir early review of dra… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Int-dir] [ipwave] Intdir early review of dra… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Int-dir] [ipwave] Intdir early review of dra… Abdussalam Baryun
- Re: [Int-dir] [ipwave] Intdir early review of dra… Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Int-dir] [ipwave] Intdir early review of dra… NABIL BENAMAR
- Re: [Int-dir] [ipwave] Intdir early review of dra… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Int-dir] [ipwave] Intdir early review of dra… Nabil Benamar
- Re: [Int-dir] [ipwave] Intdir early review of dra… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211oc… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211oc… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] link-local text (Re: Intdir early r… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] link-local text (Re: Intdir early r… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] link-local text (Re: Intdir early r… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Int-dir] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211oc… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Int-dir] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211oc… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Int-dir] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211oc… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] side note RFC 4291 2nd par sec. 2.1… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211oc… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Int-dir] [ipwave] Intdir early review of dra… Jong-Hyouk Lee
- Re: [Int-dir] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211oc… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] pencil and paper vs cars Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211oc… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] link-local text (Re: Intdir early r… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211oc… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] Expertise on ND problems on OCB Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] [ipwave] Expertise on ND problems o… Charlie Perkins
- Re: [Int-dir] link-local text (Re: Intdir early r… 神明達哉
- Re: [Int-dir] side note RFC 4291 2nd par sec. 2.1… 神明達哉
- Re: [Int-dir] link-local text (Re: Intdir early r… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Int-dir] link-local text (Re: Intdir early r… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Int-dir] link-local text (Re: Intdir early r… 神明達哉
- Re: [Int-dir] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211oc… Brian E Carpenter
- [Int-dir] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb an… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Int-dir] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211oc… Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Int-dir] which BSM? Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] link-local text (Re: Intdir early r… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211oc… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211oc… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Int-dir] side note RFC 4291 2nd par sec. 2.1… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] 118 Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] link-local text (Re: Intdir early r… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] ND-over-OCB hidden terminals: truck… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211oc… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] side note RFC 4291 2nd par sec. 2.1… 神明達哉
- Re: [Int-dir] side note RFC 4291 2nd par sec. 2.1… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] side note RFC 4291 2nd par sec. 2.1… 神明達哉
- Re: [Int-dir] link-local text (Re: Intdir early r… 神明達哉
- Re: [Int-dir] 118 神明達哉
- Re: [Int-dir] 118 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Int-dir] 118 Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] side note RFC 4291 2nd par sec. 2.1… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211oc… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211oc… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] use-cases in Problem Statement Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] use-cases in Problem Statement NABIL BENAMAR
- Re: [Int-dir] 118 Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [Int-dir] 118 Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] 118 Eric Gray
- Re: [Int-dir] side note RFC 4291 2nd par sec. 2.1… 神明達哉
- Re: [Int-dir] 118 Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] 118 Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Int-dir] side note RFC 4291 2nd par sec. 2.1… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] 118 Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] side note RFC 4291 2nd par sec. 2.1… 神明達哉
- Re: [Int-dir] 118 Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [Int-dir] 118 神明達哉
- Re: [Int-dir] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211oc… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Int-dir] side note RFC 4291 2nd par sec. 2.1… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] 118 Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] 118 Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211oc… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] 118 神明達哉
- Re: [Int-dir] 118 Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211oc… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Int-dir] 118 神明達哉
- Re: [Int-dir] 118 Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] 118 神明達哉
- Re: [Int-dir] 118 Suresh Krishnan
- Re: [Int-dir] 118 Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] 118 Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] 118 神明達哉
- Re: [Int-dir] 118 Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Int-dir] [ipwave] Expertise on ND problems o… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Int-dir] [ipwave] Expertise on ND problems o… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Int-dir] [ipwave] Expertise on ND problems o… Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)