Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-lake-edhoc - respond by June 22
Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx> Mon, 22 June 2020 21:49 UTC
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From: Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx>
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2020 17:49:08 -0400
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To: Mališa Vučinić <malisa.vucinic@inria.fr>
Cc: lake@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-lake-edhoc - respond by June 22
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Hi all, I oppose adoption of EDHOC, for both process and technical reasons. At the process level, it is ridiculous to move for adoption immediately after declaring consensus on the requirements. Unless you're going to use the requirements to evaluate solutions, there's no point having them, and there has been no discussion on this list as to how the two solutions compare in light of the agreed requirements. Mališa, Your call for adoption also incorrectly suggests that because cTLS has been adopted by TLS and no other drafts have been submitted to LAKE, then EDHOC is basically the only option. That is not true -- the group could declare consensus that the focus should be on cTLS, declare victory, and close down. That would also fulfill the charter. I continue to believe that cTLS is a better option for solving this problem. From the beginning, those of us involved in cTLS have pointed out that having more choices for security protocols in the ecosystem has costs. We have also put forward concrete protocol proposals, backed by implementation, that show that cTLS can meet the requried constraints. Neither argument has been addressed by the EDHOC proponents. More directly, it is hard to evaluate whether EDHOC is a suitable starting point given that it has been a very dynamic target over the last several versions, and earlier iterations have had security issues. Starting from the thoroughly-vetted baseline of TLS is a safer approach than designing from whole cloth. One can focus on specific questions around the things that are being changed, rather starting analysis all over again. I also believe that the IETF should focus its work on protocols that will have real-world impact. It is clear that EDHOC is popular among academics. Opinion appears much more split among people who work on shipping code for real IoT devices. Until we can get some real consensus among actual implementors, we should not move forward. --Richard On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 9:54 AM Mališa Vučinić <malisa.vucinic@inria.fr> wrote: > Hi all, > > Since we now have a rough consensus on the requirements document, we are > proceeding with the selection of the LAKE for OSCORE our working group is > chartered to work on. Given: > > - the LAKE working group charter, > - a wide community support over an extensive period of time for > draft-selander-lake-edhoc, > - adoption of the cTLS draft by the TLS working group where it will be > further developed, > - that no other drafts have been submitted for consideration of the LAKE > working group, > > we are now launching a call for adoption for > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-selander-lake-edhoc-01. > > Please reply to this thread whether you support the adoption, and indicate > if you are ready to review if this draft becomes a working group document. > > The call for adoption ends on June 22nd, 2020. > > Your LAKE chairs. > -- > Lake mailing list > Lake@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lake >
- [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-lake-… Mališa Vučinić
- Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-l… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-l… Christian Amsüss
- Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-l… Dan Garcia
- Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-l… Eduardo Ingles (UM)
- Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-l… Martin Disch
- Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-l… Laurent Toutain
- Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-l… Timothy Claeys
- Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-l… Karl Norrman
- Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-l… Rikard Höglund
- Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-l… Marco Tiloca
- Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-l… sandoche Balakrichenan
- Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-l… Blomqvist, Peter
- Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-l… Jesus Sanchez-Gomez
- Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-l… Christopher Wood
- Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-l… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-l… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-l… Christopher Wood
- Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-l… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-l… Christopher Wood
- Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-l… Melinda Shore
- Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-l… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-l… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-l… Brendan Moran
- Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-l… Robert Cragie
- Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-l… Shahid Raza
- Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-l… Richard Barnes
- Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-l… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-l… Sean Turner
- Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-l… Martin Thomson
- Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-l… Göran Selander
- Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-l… Robert Cragie
- Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-l… Karthik Bhargavan
- Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-l… Rene Struik
- Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-l… Karthik Bhargavan
- Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-l… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-l… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-l… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-l… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-l… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-l… Blomqvist, Peter
- Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-l… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-l… Blomqvist, Peter
- Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-l… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-l… Blomqvist, Peter
- Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-l… Blomqvist, Peter
- Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-l… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-l… Robert Cragie
- Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-l… Blomqvist, Peter
- Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-l… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-l… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-l… Göran Selander
- Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-l… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Lake] Call for adoption for draft-selander-l… Martin Disch