Re: [OSPF] WG Adoption Poll for "OSPF LLS Extensions for Local Interface ID Advertisement"

prz <> Mon, 08 May 2017 04:01 UTC

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Date: Sun, 07 May 2017 21:01:33 -0700
From: prz <>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <>
Cc: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <>, OSPF WG List <>
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Subject: Re: [OSPF] WG Adoption Poll for "OSPF LLS Extensions for Local Interface ID Advertisement"
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OK, intention clear.  

What baffles me: can you specify where the
idea of "repurposing" existing, implemented and deployed standards RFC
comes from? And what does that look like in practice? You intend to
publish an errata? And how will we deal with deployed gear that uses
RFC3630 on all interfaces? And how will traffic engineering metrics be
obtained on interfaces if RFC3630 is "repurposed" to some type of
interfaces only? 

Or do you expect RFC3630 being advertised without the
sub-TLV 2 now on some kind of interfaces while still using all the
others sub-TLVs after being "repurposed" and all the tooling rewritten
to look for the suggested draft while being backwards compatible without
having an indication what is actually implemented on the combination of
both routers on both sides of an interface?  

Any hack works for a
super special deployment case but that seems to be suggest an
orthogonal, clean standard. Really?  

--- tony  

On Mon, 8 May 2017
00:13:21 +0000, "Acee Lindem (acee)"  wrote:  

From: prz 
Date: Sunday,
May 7, 2017 at 3:47 PM
To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" 
Cc: Acee Lindem ,
Subject: Re: [OSPF] WG Adoption Poll for "OSPF LLS
Extensions for Local Interface ID Advertisement" 

I try to parse that
and am still not clear what you both are saying 

1. It seems you both
saying that RFC3630 is expected now to be used on unnumbered only (for
which I find no indication) or are you claiming it's only used that way?
Based on which implementation or document? What is "repurposing"?
RFC3630 is a published Standards track RFC and I don't know what
"re-purposing" standards RFCs means?      
RFC 3630 is specific to OSPF
TE Opaque LSAs and what I'm saying is that for this specific usage for
interface ID discovery, the repurposing the TE LSAs is limited to
unnumbered interfaces. For the second time, can you confirm???  

2. Or
are you saying that the new draft will be restricted to unnumbered only?
In which case I expect a new version of draft to discuss further and
agree taht the backwards compat section colllapses to "unnumbered link"
considerations only ...      
Absolutely not - the draft that is under
WG consideration is for general purpose discovery of interface IDs. I
believe this point is clear if you read the draft.  



--- tony  

On Sat, 6 May 2017 18:15:21 +0000, "Les Ginsberg
(ginsberg)"  wrote:  

Tony - 

It is known that link identifiers are
useful even in cases of numbered links e.g. some telemetry applications
prefer to use link identifiers to identify all links (numbered and

So I share Acee's expectations. 


[ [6]] ON BEHALF OF Acee Lindem (acee)
Saturday, May 06, 2017 10:04 AM
TO: prz
[OSPF] WG Adoption Poll for "OSPF LLS Extensions for Local Interface ID

Hi Tony,   

I'll have to discuss with the authors -
but my impression is that this would not be limited to unnumbered links.
My understanding is that the repurposing of link-local OSPF TE LSAs is
only done on unnumbered links so that would be the main focus of the
backward compatibility discussion.   



FROM: prz

DATE: Saturday, May 6, 2017 at 12:58 PM
TO: Acee Lindem 
SUBJECT: Re: [OSPF] WG Adoption Poll for "OSPF LLS Extensions for
Local Interface ID Advertisement"  

Hey Acee,  

1. looking fwd to read
the revision with backwards compatibility section and definition which
Hello FSM states the extension applies to 

2. I try to read what you
say carefully but please clarify: there's nothing in rfc5613 that
prevents LLC on any link so do you mean, you suggest to use this TLV on
unnumbered links _only_? Or do you suggest that RFC3630 implies somehow
that LS TE LSAs are used on unnumbered links _only_? If so, I don't see
anything in the RFC to this effect ...  

--- tony  

On Fri, 5 May 2017
15:14:30 +0000, "Acee Lindem (acee)"  wrote:  

Hi Tony,   

The authors
will cover this in the next revision. Based on discussions, the usage of
link-scoped TE LSAs is limited to unnumbered point-to-point links. If
this is the case, the backward compatibility is much simpler than the
other discussions we've been having.   



FROM: prz

DATE: Friday, May 5, 2017 at 11:09 AM
TO: Acee Lindem 

SUBJECT: Re: [OSPF] WG Adoption Poll for "OSPF LLS Extensions for Local
Interface ID Advertisement"   

Not sure it made it from my other
address so rtx to the list ...  

A conditional against here ...  

I am
fine with adoption if I see a version that spells the detailed behavior
and especially interactions between RFC4302 and this draft in a detailed
section, i.e. both on, RFC4302 gets configured/unconfigured, are the LLS
extensions advertised on every hello or just until a specific state
(like ISIS padding thingies) and so on ...   

I'd rather have this now
than a LC discussion ...   

The idea is deceptively simple but it is a
redundant mechanism and those always end causing inter-op problems
unless cleanly spelled out ...   

--- tony