Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about the multipath extension milestone (was: Re: IETF Last Call for QUIC)
Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen <mikkelfj@gmail.com> Sun, 27 September 2020 16:37 UTC
Return-Path: <mikkelfj@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: quic@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: quic@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEFA03A0CEA for <quic@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 27 Sep 2020 09:37:44 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.096
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O8jajQTFgrc8 for <quic@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 27 Sep 2020 09:37:43 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-yb1-xb2b.google.com (mail-yb1-xb2b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7B9C63A093D for <quic@ietf.org>; Sun, 27 Sep 2020 09:37:43 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-yb1-xb2b.google.com with SMTP id f70so1863148ybg.13 for <quic@ietf.org>; Sun, 27 Sep 2020 09:37:43 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=F/ne8iJyZNq/Ck8G0Q0CN0xivRRUVNQscEFBuCM0u0I=; b=jl2HlkzZ3nFDGLoIbkYGs5DrITB0bhgwYeB2AiYuofhNZmgWwnR314e7i/d+TT/1oo FBJl8nh0D4DqMoPYSwLPEkx1b9ewrZJ5ZP2iBTPfkuJY6stiA53tpPqBlXxpb2LUNAfH 8C4A5CSdU0mmxPh7DKzekb814jYf5d6rtlue5kPa/ATuvxWbUv2EPq5GMXEOfu5k43V4 V4Z6p6NNfoEMcc6FskXt7IrG6kEwAORvFHUWJIosevfeyqVzmAdN+vQESmRBjRhzO6pS BdTS0YC8MReRzqAWykwHMosn9ld1xyK+/kBOSR47eMQFZSl0JDghiOHmdtfKdnabONbp +FlA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=F/ne8iJyZNq/Ck8G0Q0CN0xivRRUVNQscEFBuCM0u0I=; b=qxsIhB9VwnKUd9eInU+o08wT/qUzsrR6ArDFbdskXR/CxBm+wAtv/OxloBzUxNL+6x g+nUFwLOZzZcLS7zJkMrhw4ylY7XWJd4ijjtCfVaPkp/bvPF/5CDjmPcKyGMjcmpkhbU jE9KqBV+wqfbzvoSZgoRRKzaD2xDlxb7T0ltniyv+4JybYrxd9X3K0oeob9dwpJAz9lF eiekPsKs0+AnQXL0Wz3F3TkTPQc/5iJsTiB5cqOzuMuO81oq8du1UMB3vZd8GbsqTEIF q2Y5w29qAUIvOAtsLGmJGBLB5/XuLg8Cziywi+7IFdavkZZuk4UG/GunHTNmczXIzgQp IKFQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530L3gFaU3VoZmQ3uxVPCpTwhCv6RHyQYh8HXSdsF/4h3uDoBrm0 +nya9KWIANjyFlU28PZdXf5UZJIdrNxnPIhl9CQ=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyf1iugombXaiBPx/bE+ejiJSAimIbs9M9O9AQSVpYrt6JA9thM1D2E2WDgmPfC8wAGDAcD/oogwoJY1T6NmVA=
X-Received: by 2002:a25:d8b:: with SMTP id 133mr10711007ybn.294.1601224662611; Sun, 27 Sep 2020 09:37:42 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from 1058052472880 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sun, 27 Sep 2020 09:37:42 -0700
From: Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen <mikkelfj@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAKKJt-e=+XLZhNWqaG9YSLTRqyQRvDc-dagUSkFwHOByFwZ++Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <F0A5E38D-4117-4729-BFF8-72D97CAA9908@eggert.org> <CAKKJt-e=+XLZhNWqaG9YSLTRqyQRvDc-dagUSkFwHOByFwZ++Q@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2020 09:37:42 -0700
Message-ID: <CAN1APdfNGb1qe25Rpswv=zdnLKn-5tJA2k2AnHQUFNc_mLWjvw@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about the multipath extension milestone (was: Re: IETF Last Call for QUIC)
To: Spencer Dawkins at IETF <spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com>, QUIC WG <quic@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000387b2305b04e2bcc"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/quic/MtwLVH1aIrw9AP6r3MR4ZlfsmPg>
X-BeenThere: quic@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Main mailing list of the IETF QUIC working group <quic.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/quic>, <mailto:quic-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/quic/>
List-Post: <mailto:quic@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:quic-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/quic>, <mailto:quic-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2020 16:37:45 -0000
At least I’d like to see multi-path with non-migration, for example to take advantage of multiple network cards, and to prioritize a VPN link but with WAN fallback at full capacity, or during service degradation. This especially so for long running connections server to server in order to avoid dealing with this at the application layer. Of course, it is non-trivial to state preferences, and QoS / latency / loss must be evaluated per link. Kind Regards, Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen On 27 September 2020 at 18.08.21, Spencer Dawkins at IETF ( spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com) wrote: Dear QUIC working group, On Fri, Sep 25, 2020 at 5:00 AM Lars Eggert <lars@eggert.org> wrote: > In parallel to progressing the "base drafts" towards RFC publications, the > WG should now also begin to pick up the pace on our other adopted work > items (ops drafts, extensions, etc.) > > One important other discussion item is what to do about the multipath > extension milestone, which some have suggested should be dropped, while > others still show interest to pursue it. > So, I'd like to understand the suggestion to drop this milestone, before I start trying to discuss that suggestion :-). In conversations with individual folk, I've heard these concerns about QUIC multipath: - Whether it will be possible to evaluate multipath performance at scale, both for evaluating proposals and testing implementations. - The complexity involved in making decisions dynamically about which path to send a given packet on (which could be a research topic, given certain constraints and goals). If I've misunderstood or misquoted, my apologies, of course. Please correct me. What other concerns do people have? I'd like to get all the objections out at the beginning of the discussion. Thanks! Spencer
- IETF Last Call for QUIC Lars Eggert
- Preparing for discussion on what to do about the … Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
- RE: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo)
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Lucas Pardue
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Matt Joras
- RE:(2) Preparing for discussion on what to do abo… Madhan Raj Kanagarathinam
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Lucas Pardue
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Marten Seemann
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Lucas Pardue
- Multipath inside transport (was: Re: Preparing fo… Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Robin MARX
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Lucas Pardue
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Lucas Pardue
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Ian Swett
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Martin Duke
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Kazuho Oku
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Ian Swett
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Christian Huitema
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Martin Thomson
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Lucas Pardue
- Composability of extensions (was: Re: Preparing f… Lucas Pardue
- Re: Composability of extensions (was: Re: Prepari… Dmitri Tikhonov
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Martin Duke
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Christian Huitema
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Martin Duke
- Re: Composability of extensions (was: Re: Prepari… Christian Huitema
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: Composability of extensions (was: Re: Prepari… Lucas Pardue
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Christoph Paasch
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Matt Joras
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Lucas Pardue
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Christoph Paasch
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Lucas Pardue
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Christoph Paasch
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Lucas Pardue
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Ian Swett
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Lucas Pardue
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Matt Joras
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Jana Iyengar
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Lucas Pardue
- Re: Preparing for discussion on what to do about … Tommy Pauly