Re: Re-chartering for extension work
Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com> Thu, 12 December 2019 09:07 UTC
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From: Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com>
To: "roni.even@huawei.com" <roni.even@huawei.com>, "mnot@mnot.net" <mnot@mnot.net>
CC: "lars@eggert.org" <lars@eggert.org>, "quic@ietf.org" <quic@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Re-chartering for extension work
Thread-Topic: Re-chartering for extension work
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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2019 09:07:43 +0000
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Hi, I want to give my input as AD into this process. We are intentionally keeping this rechartering very narrow in scope and do not intended to open up for general extension adoption in the WG at this moment. The extensions currently on call for adoption is selected set which appears important, tractable and with clear scope. However, the primary focus will remain on finishing the core specification of version 1 of QUIC. The chairs have my full confidence in managing the process and are communicating with us ADs regularly. As Mark stated before discussion of future extensions can occurr if time permits, we will also consider other ways of enabling the discussion like a QUIC dispatch session. However, as v1 finish we will take a new look at the QUIC WG charter and do a more thourgh recharter at that stage. That discussion will then happen in the context of the discussion that will have occurred between now and then. However, starting v2, how to handle both bigger and smaller extensions to the protocol and any additional guidance documents needed will clearly need changes to the charter. I hope that clarifies the road forward. Cheers Magnus Westerlund On Thu, 2019-12-12 at 07:41 +0000, Roni Even (A) wrote: > Hi Mark, > I know that it was discussed in tsvarea session. I noticed that are currently > 19 individual drafts in QUIC. I am not sure that all of them should be adopted > as chartered work in QUIC. My view is that the WG should at least say so and > propose to the authors to take it to a named WG ( probably need recommendation > from the Ads) instead of keeping them alive in the QUIC as related IDs. > Currently the authors can ask to add these documents to the charter based on > the proposed charter change > > " The Working Group may consider other extension work, but adopting further > extensions requires updating this charter." > > This is like a new call for adoption process, instead for asking for adoption > the question will be call for re-charter. > > Roni > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Mark Nottingham [mailto:mnot@mnot.net] > > Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2019 9:15 AM > > To: Roni Even (A) > > Cc: IETF QUIC WG; Lars Eggert > > Subject: Re: Re-chartering for extension work > > > > > > > > > On 12 Dec 2019, at 6:13 pm, Roni Even (A) <roni.even@huawei.com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > HI Mark, > > > I looked at your response to Jana, I do not have a better text suggestion > > > > but I think that adding specific extensions can be discussed by asking the > > WG > > to create a new milestone. Yet I understand that the charter should be clear > > about what is in scope for the WG. I think that maybe the charter should > > also > > say that the WG can direct proposal for new work to another WG (sort of > > dispatch for QUIC). > > > > That's been discussed (at the Transport Area meeting in Singapore); we > > might try an experiment where we do something like that in Vancouver, but > > it's not clear that *this* WG should be the locus of quic-dispatchy things > > quite yet. > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > One other thing, I think that when asking for adoption of a document you > > > > are asking to create a milestone and adopt the document as the initial > > document to address the milestone. > > > Sorry for sounding like someone whose focus is on the process and not the > > > > content. > > > > > > Roni > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Mark Nottingham [mailto:mnot@mnot.net] > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2019 9:00 AM > > > > To: Roni Even (A) > > > > Cc: IETF QUIC WG; Lars Eggert > > > > Subject: Re: Re-chartering for extension work > > > > > > > > Hi Roni, > > > > > > > > See my response to Jana regarding naming of extensions. > > > > > > > > Regarding milestones - yes, we'll do that when the rest of the > > > > changes go through. Thanks for the reminder. > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 12 Dec 2019, at 5:49 pm, Roni Even (A) <roni.even@huawei.com> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Mark, > > > > > I am not sure why you need to name extensions in the charter. I > > > > > think that > > > > > > > > the extension work in the charter should be general and the > > > > discussion about specific ones would be about creating a new milestone.. > > > > > > > > > > BTW: maybe it will be good to update the milestones > > > > > > > > > > Roni Even > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: QUIC [mailto:quic-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mark > > > > > > Nottingham > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2019 11:38 PM > > > > > > To: IETF QUIC WG > > > > > > Cc: Lars Eggert > > > > > > Subject: Re-chartering for extension work > > > > > > > > > > > > We've just put out Calls for Adoption for extensions to QUICv1, as > > > > > > we believe that the group has some capacity to discuss them as it > > > > > > finishes work on the core protocol. > > > > > > > > > > > > However, our charter [1] precludes work on at least some extensions. > > > > > > The specific text in question is: > > > > > > > > > > > > """ > > > > > > Extensions that will support partial reliability, and negotiation > > > > > > and use of Forward Error Correction schemes, are out of scope in > > > > > > this version of the working group charter. > > > > > > """ > > > > > > > > > > > > *If* we do decide we'd like to adopt, we'll need to update it to > > > > > > something > > > > > > like: > > > > > > > > > > > > """ > > > > > > Additionally, the Working Group will deliver [ adopted extensions ]. > > > > > > The Working Group may consider other extension work, but adopting > > > > > > further extensions requires updating this charter. > > > > > > """ > > > > > > > > > > > > Please take a look and discuss any concerns; we'll be asking our > > > > > > ADs for such a modification (with appropriate changes to the list > > > > > > of extensions adopted) once our Calls for Adoption complete. > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/quic/about/ > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Mark Nottingham > > > > > > https://protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=2f5948b0-73cb45af-2f59082b-0cc47ad93db4-7b6490019ba3569f&q=1&e=4eadb99e-52e4-49b3-adef-683bb7f58fea&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mnot.net%2F > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Mark Nottingham > > > > https://protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=bc29a42a-e0bba935-bc29e4b1-0cc47ad93db4-eaf17369ba9839a7&q=1&e=4eadb99e-52e4-49b3-adef-683bb7f58fea&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mnot.net%2F > > > > -- > > Mark Nottingham > > https://protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=21be3936-7d2c3429-21be79ad-0cc47ad93db4-613c07cadcb96094&q=1&e=4eadb99e-52e4-49b3-adef-683bb7f58fea&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mnot.net%2F > > -- Cheers Magnus Westerlund ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Networks, Ericsson Research ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ericsson AB | Phone +46 10 7148287 Torshamnsgatan 23 | Mobile +46 73 0949079 SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------
- Re-chartering for extension work Mark Nottingham
- Re: Re-chartering for extension work Jana Iyengar
- RE: Re-chartering for extension work Lubashev, Igor
- Re: Re-chartering for extension work Martin Thomson
- RE: Re-chartering for extension work Roni Even (A)
- Re: Re-chartering for extension work Mark Nottingham
- Re: Re-chartering for extension work Mark Nottingham
- Re: Re-chartering for extension work Mark Nottingham
- RE: Re-chartering for extension work Roni Even (A)
- Re: Re-chartering for extension work Mark Nottingham
- RE: Re-chartering for extension work Roni Even (A)
- Re: Re-chartering for extension work Magnus Westerlund
- RE: Re-chartering for extension work Roni Even (A)
- Re: Re-chartering for extension work Salz, Rich
- RE: Re-chartering for extension work Lubashev, Igor
- Re: Re-chartering for extension work David Schinazi
- Re: Re-chartering for extension work Mark Nottingham
- Re: Re-chartering for extension work Mark Nottingham
- Re: Re-chartering for extension work David Schinazi
- Re: Re-chartering for extension work Olivier Bonaventure
- RE: Re-chartering for extension work Roni Even (A)
- Re: Re-chartering for extension work Lars Eggert
- Multipath (was: Re: Re-chartering for extension w… Lars Eggert
- Re: Multipath (was: Re: Re-chartering for extensi… Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: Multipath (was: Re: Re-chartering for extensi… Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
- Re: Multipath (was: Re: Re-chartering for extensi… Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: Multipath (was: Re: Re-chartering for extensi… Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
- Re: Multipath (was: Re: Re-chartering for extensi… Christian Huitema
- RE: Re-chartering for extension work Mike Bishop
- RE: Re-chartering for extension work Kuhn Nicolas
- Re: Re-chartering for extension work Ian Swett
- Re: [EToSat] Re-chartering for extension work Christian Huitema
- Re: Multipath (was: Re: Re-chartering for extensi… Jana Iyengar
- Re: Re-chartering for extension work Lars Eggert
- Re: Re-chartering for extension work Magnus Westerlund
- Re: Re-chartering for extension work Magnus Westerlund
- RE: Multipath (was: Re: Re-chartering for extensi… Florin Baboescu
- Re: Multipath (was: Re: Re-chartering for extensi… Olivier Bonaventure
- RE: Re-chartering for extension work Roni Even (A)
- Re: Multipath (was: Re: Re-chartering for extensi… Ryan Hamilton
- RE: Re-chartering for extension work Lubashev, Igor
- Re: Re-chartering for extension work Jana Iyengar
- RE:(2) Multipath (was: Re: Re-chartering for exte… Madhan Raj Kanagarathinam
- Re: Re-chartering for extension work Lars Eggert
- Re: Re-chartering for extension work Lars Eggert
- RE: Re-chartering for extension work Roni Even (A)
- RE: Re-chartering for extension work Roni Even (A)
- Re: Re-chartering for extension work Lars Eggert
- Re: Re-chartering for extension work Magnus Westerlund
- RE: Re-chartering for extension work Kuhn Nicolas
- RE: [EToSat] Re-chartering for extension work Kuhn Nicolas
- Re: Multipath Gorry Fairhurst
- Re: Re-chartering for extension work Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: Multipath (was: Re: Re-chartering for extensi… Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: Multipath Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: Multipath (was: Re: Re-chartering for extensi… Tommy Pauly
- Re: Multipath (was: Re: Re-chartering for extensi… Jana Iyengar
- RE: Multipath (was: Re: Re-chartering for extensi… tim.costello
- Re: Multipath (was: Re: Re-chartering for extensi… Mirja Kuehlewind
- Re: Re-chartering for extension work Dmitri Tikhonov
- Re: Re-chartering for extension work Lubashev, Igor
- Re: Re-chartering for extension work Martin Thomson
- Re: Multipath (was: Re: Re-chartering for extensi… Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: Multipath (was: Re: Re-chartering for extensi… Lucas Pardue
- Re: Re-chartering for extension work Dmitri Tikhonov
- Re: Multipath (was: Re: Re-chartering for extensi… Mirja Kuehlewind
- QUIC re-chartering: include DNS-over-QUIC? Erik Nygren
- Re: QUIC re-chartering: include DNS-over-QUIC? Tommy Pauly
- Re: QUIC re-chartering: include DNS-over-QUIC? Salz, Rich
- Re: QUIC re-chartering: include DNS-over-QUIC? Eric Rescorla
- Re: QUIC re-chartering: include DNS-over-QUIC? Ted Hardie
- Re: QUIC re-chartering: include DNS-over-QUIC? Jari Arkko
- Re: QUIC re-chartering: include DNS-over-QUIC? Magnus Westerlund
- Re: QUIC re-chartering: include DNS-over-QUIC? Stephen Farrell
- Re: QUIC re-chartering: include DNS-over-QUIC? Christian Huitema
- Re: QUIC re-chartering: include DNS-over-QUIC? Daniel Migault
- Re: QUIC re-chartering: include DNS-over-QUIC? Erik Nygren
- Re: QUIC re-chartering: include DNS-over-QUIC? Salz, Rich
- Re: QUIC re-chartering: include DNS-over-QUIC? Christopher Wood
- Re: QUIC re-chartering: include DNS-over-QUIC? Ian Swett
- Re: QUIC re-chartering: include DNS-over-QUIC? Vidhi Goel
- Re: QUIC re-chartering: include DNS-over-QUIC? Paul Vixie
- Re: QUIC re-chartering: include DNS-over-QUIC? Erik Nygren
- Re: QUIC re-chartering: include DNS-over-QUIC? Erik Kline
- Re: QUIC re-chartering: include DNS-over-QUIC? Martin Duke
- Re: QUIC re-chartering: include DNS-over-QUIC? Paul Vixie
- Re: QUIC re-chartering: include DNS-over-QUIC? Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
- Re: QUIC re-chartering: include DNS-over-QUIC? Lucas Pardue
- Re: QUIC re-chartering: include DNS-over-QUIC? Erik Kline
- Re: QUIC re-chartering: include DNS-over-QUIC? Martin Thomson
- Re: QUIC re-chartering: include DNS-over-QUIC? Erik Nygren
- Re: QUIC re-chartering: include DNS-over-QUIC? Paul Vixie