Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS

Fred Baker <fredbaker.ietf@gmail.com> Thu, 15 August 2019 22:01 UTC

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From: Fred Baker <fredbaker.ietf@gmail.com>
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Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 15:01:24 -0700
Cc: John Levine <johnl@taugh.com>, Ben Schwartz <bemasc@google.com>, resolverless-dns@ietf.org
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To: Eric Orth <ericorth=40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS
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One thing I would want to be certain of is that the host did DNSSEC validation. It’s the only way I know of to verify the validity of the RR.

Sent using a machine that autocorrects in interesting ways...

> On Aug 15, 2019, at 1:13 PM, Eric Orth <ericorth=40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 12:39 PM John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
> 
>> I also like the paper but it misses the largest concern with
>> resolverless DNS: it circumvents DNS based access controls.  I realize
>> this is not a popular position in the IETF, but there are lots of
>> perfectly good reasons that networks provide filtered DNS.  Even
>> though it has usually been technically easy to circumvent, most people
>> don't and it's been good enough.  If it's widely circumvented, we can
>> expect much more intrusive filtering with a lot more collateral damage.
> 
> From the Chrome perspective, this is a concern I partly share.  I'm mostly ignoring here the circumvention and forced-filtering issues of whether or not the network should be able to mandate filtering/manipulation or whether or not clients should be forced to comply with such things because that issue is being debated enough over in the ADD mailing list.
> 
> But if Chrome is using a particular filtering DNS server, especially if that server has been explicitly selected by the user or someone with authority over the user's device, seems like it would result in a bad user experience if we then bypassed that filtering by retrieving results outside the DNS server.  My initial thinking is that we would then ideally only use resolverless DNS if we had knowledge that the in-use recursive resolver is not doing significant filtering.  But such a signal does not currently generally exist, so would we be limited to only doing resolverless DNS when the resolver is on a hardcoded list of non-filtering resolvers?
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