Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS
Viktor Dukhovni <ietf-dane@dukhovni.org> Tue, 27 August 2019 18:29 UTC
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From: Viktor Dukhovni <ietf-dane@dukhovni.org>
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Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2019 14:29:33 -0400
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Subject: Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS
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> On Aug 23, 2019, at 5:37 AM, Erik Sy <sy@informatik.uni-hamburg.de> wrote: > > In my view, DANE TLSA is an approach to do public key pinning. The analogy is deeply flawed. HPKP has keys pinned by *clients* that may contact the server sufficiently infrequently to make stale keys an intractable problem. HPKP is also provides no protection on first contact. With DANE, on the other hand, the keys are published in the server's DNS zone, and refreshed by the server operator's DNS administrator independently of any client activity. TLSA record TTLs are typically an hour or less, and otherwise rarely more than a day. A client that implements DANE is protected on first contact. > The web > already collected a lot of experience with public key pinning as this > can be also done using other protocols than DNS. The inevitable failure of HPKP was obvious (to me and doubtless not me alone) from the outset. Stateful client-side key pinning does not scale. DANE does not share the problems of HPKP. Yes some server operators may be negligent and publish stale TLSA RRs, but *they* can fix this promptly, just as they would with expired certificates (a TLSA record is essentially a trust-anchor, it may directly designate a trusted leaf key or in many cases a trusted issuer). Any perceived similarity between DANE and HPKP is largely the result of lack of familiarity with DANE. DANE is currently employed on 6000 SMTP MX hosts serving 1.22 million email domains. Only ~500 domains have stale TLSA records, and the number should go down as more senders enable DANE, making broken deployments more visible to negligent operators. -- Viktor.
- [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Erik Sy
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Ben Schwartz
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Erik Sy
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS John Levine
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Joe Abley
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Ted Hardie
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Erik Sy
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS John R Levine
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Paul Vixie
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Eric Orth
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Erik Sy
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Ted Hardie
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Fred Baker
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Joe Abley
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS John R Levine
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS John Levine
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Eric Orth
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS John Levine
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Erik Sy
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Ted Lemon
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Erik Sy
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Ted Lemon
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Paul Vixie
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Steffen Nurpmeso
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Ted Hardie
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Ted Lemon
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Erik Sy
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Paul Vixie
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Erik Sy
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Ted Hardie
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Paul Vixie
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Erik Sy
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Paul Vixie
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Anne Bennett
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Paul Vixie
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Erik Sy
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Paul Vixie
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Erik Sy
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Steffen Nurpmeso
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Ralf Weber
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS John Levine
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Erik Sy
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Anne Bennett
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Ted Hardie
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Eric Orth
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS John Levine
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS John Levine
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Erik Sy
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Erik Sy
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Erik Sy
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Paul Vixie
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Paul Vixie
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Paul Vixie
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Ralf Weber
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Vittorio Bertola
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Anne Bennett
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Erik Sy
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Erik Sy
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Erik Sy
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Paul Vixie
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Ralf Weber
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Vittorio Bertola
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Vittorio Bertola
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Ted Lemon
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Ted Lemon
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Erik Sy
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Paul Vixie
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Erik Sy
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Ted Lemon
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Paul Vixie
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Paul Vixie
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Ted Lemon
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Paul Vixie
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Erik Sy
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Paul Vixie
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Erik Sy
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Vittorio Bertola
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Erik Sy
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Vittorio Bertola
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Erik Sy
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Eric Osterweil
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Eric Osterweil
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Erik Sy
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Eric Osterweil
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Erik Sy
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Erik Sy
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Ted Lemon
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Erik Sy
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Joe Abley
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Paul Vixie
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Eric Osterweil
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Erik Sy
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Joe Abley
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Erik Sy
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Erik Sy
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Bob Harold
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Erik Sy
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Joe Abley
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Erik Sy
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Erik Sy
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS Paul Vixie