Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture
Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com> Tue, 18 June 2013 09:56 UTC
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Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2013 11:56:56 +0200
From: Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com>
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To: Hadriel Kaplan <hadriel.kaplan@oracle.com>
References: <CA+9kkMDnjCNXGV0GU7x6gbbZMf4WiEuVvCRY8_Fix5tmdOB-Kg@mail.gmail.com> <AD220324-EEE7-4800-8512-FD7BADA9EC34@oracle.com> <CA+9kkMDY2Z_5_1uYJ1K_ZmrJB2a1-RE7V3aPqNHQg82DyagjCg@mail.gmail.com> <2975A93F-44DA-4020-B4DE-42E7ED98C08F@oracle.com> <51BAC9BC.6070708@ericsson.com> <94846970-4694-4EC8-AEFA-AEECEE0135AA@oracle.com>
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Subject: Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture
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Hadirel and WG, Please see my response inline. On 2013-06-14 18:58, Hadriel Kaplan wrote: > You can't be serious. There was exactly ONE email asking for agenda > items, here: > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtcweb/current/msg07668.html It > was sent on May 30th. It gave a generous 6 days to respond. Luckily > no one ever goes on vacation for longer than 5 days. Instead, two > people sent a response on June 10th, a tremendous 11 days after the > request. Outrageous! That's a almost twice as long as they were > given! > > Thank goodness the chairs detected this monstrous breach of > procedure, and thwarted the attempts of anarchy! I mean if people > are allowed to respond to emails so tardily, how can we be expected > to get things accomplished as quickly as they've so far been in this > WG?!? Yes, we have only sent a single email this time, being the second round in a short time we tried to schedule this meeting. > > Sure, an interim for this topic has been waiting for many months if > not a whole year, and now that people didn't respond in 6 days but > took instead 11 days the topic will be delayed indefinitely yet > again... but that's no excuse for blatantly flaunting the rules! Yes, there has been difficult finding a time could work for this meeting. That was why the agenda request time was short. > > Personally I saw the email on May 30th, and assumed Oscar and Dan > would respond to you for agenda time. I assumed that if no one had > submitted agenda items to you, that the WG Chairs would send out an > email warning about that, or perhaps even directly email the people > who they expected to submit agenda items. > Yes, you assumed that someone would respond. Rather than you reaching out to verify that others would drive the question for you. Hadriel you are apparently very interested in this topic. Why don't you ensure that an agenda topic is on the agenda for Berlin? The WG chairs are happy to receive agenda requests already now. > >> If you want to discuss this, write a draft describing how how your >> additional keying is to be integrated, what the pro and cons of it. >> That will enable direct discussion of a proposal. The WG clearly >> are opinionated on this matter, but apparently don't have energy to >> produce proposals. > > There *are* drafts. > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wing-rtcweb-sdes-problems-00 > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ohlsson-rtcweb-sdes-support-01 There > are even powerpoint slides, sent to the chairs the last time this > meeting almost happened but didn't. One of those drafts has been expired since February I would like to point out. The looking at these drafts, they are neither a proposal for what to actually do. Dan Wing's draft is argument in general why SDES would be bad for security. Oscar Ohlsson's is an argument for why a number of potential risks are not a serious issue and what the other gains of using security descriptions are. >From my perspective I really would like to see some progress in at least the proposal for actually adding additional keying to ensure that the raised issues in drafts or earlier WG meetings and email discussions are meet. Additionally I would really like to see some more details for how the actual integration of an additional keying mechanism is supposed to work. > > I think the problem must be that those things weren't signed in > triplicate, sent in, sent back, queried, lost, found, subjected to > public enquiry, lost again, and finally buried in soft peat for three > months and recycled as firelighters. No, that is not it. This topic has dragged on for various reasons. Yes we chairs are clearly to blame for some of them, like being slow to attempt to schedule a meeting. However, after that there has been issues finding a suitable time where sufficient mass of people could participate. There has been time conflicts with other meetings resulting in a cancellation, which in hind sight was unnecessary. Then a rescheduling, lurk warm response from the WG, limited agenda items and another almost collision resulting another cancellation. I am sorry that this makes you frustrated. Well, it makes also me frustrated. I wished this topic was dealt with and out of the way, but it is not. So, if you want it dealt with. Please request agenda time for Berlin and ensure to update any drafts or other material to actually take into account what actually has happened in the last 15 months. Regards Magnus Westerlund ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Multimedia Technologies, Ericsson Research EAB/TVM ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ericsson AB | Phone +46 10 7148287 Färögatan 6 | Mobile +46 73 0949079 SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden| mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------
- [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Ted Hardie
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Cullen Jennings
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Ted Hardie
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Vijaya Mandava (vimandav)
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Hutton, Andrew
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Tim Panton
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Tim Panton
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Dan Wing
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Dan Wing
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Tim Panton
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Parthasarathi R
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Matthew Kaufman (SKYPE)
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Richard Barnes
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Matthew Kaufman (SKYPE)
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Matthew Kaufman (SKYPE)
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Michael Procter
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Michael Procter
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Hadriel Kaplan
- [rtcweb] Agenda time request for IETF 87 Berlin Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [rtcweb] Agenda time request for IETF 87 Berl… Ted Hardie
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Richard Barnes
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Matthew Kaufman (SKYPE)
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Dan Wing
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Dan Wing
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Hutton, Andrew
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Hutton, Andrew
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Richard Barnes
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Richard Barnes
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Richard Barnes
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Richard Barnes
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Richard Barnes
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Dan Wing
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Dan Wing
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Max Jonas Werner
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Parthasarathi R
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Max Jonas Werner
- Re: [rtcweb] No Interim on SDES at this juncture Timothy B. Terriberry