Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (adding multiple sources without encoding them in SDP)
Martin Thomson <martin.thomson@gmail.com> Wed, 19 June 2013 17:46 UTC
Return-Path: <martin.thomson@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B95EA21F9A97 for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 10:46:59 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.6
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EqmXyMHX4atY for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 10:46:59 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-we0-x22e.google.com (mail-we0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c03::22e]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D629B21F9B3E for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 10:46:56 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-we0-f174.google.com with SMTP id q58so4690295wes.19 for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 10:46:56 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=ujNzrIHd/ZfLR1BbA0pjFg0a4vyTuZNECzeWZXSPcd8=; b=EBZDXYSmEm+dylCbPx6zHX8XI00OCoF5CZrjaB054xHu9EVzf+qomGFCqVQE/JQuZg FLJJB5PFG2A+4sVywFBtZijvwpG28btXbHsgKJzv+DdHrztjqkpsHNvzqazmG3N+YgGW YRUnjrAEWsD1xwDpia4004S6wGX+Bxaur5V0IYWYxYlnaVij0DoRkwMN3N4B8vI9FxVW bK9Wji+T5C/F2r07c6A2WFrWGoDsN+pOpw7ks8IUQ5m0cQyS3yE+CH3Ext5P8XNXf20T 67CwhNIARsaJw/1ywmN0L7rm39IIr3iHWzN9XLUPnqZJ7pRn1UkN609vsUBSb3iJMQon bWwQ==
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.180.20.46 with SMTP id k14mr2930378wie.14.1371664016023; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 10:46:56 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.194.60.46 with HTTP; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 10:46:55 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <CAJrXDUEfdsZJBgkcb=MJnxRmk9ZMTHw39DE=YWa+ngXxvfsQ0A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJrXDUHdoxLTsofiwLBdwBNnCCkCBgjSdbmLaXrNEPODMrsSVA@mail.gmail.com> <CAHp8n2m4VwkpbdGE+q73qqij5RDCB4Vb-Ui1LmGSx1zmv8TX2g@mail.gmail.com> <CAJrXDUEfdsZJBgkcb=MJnxRmk9ZMTHw39DE=YWa+ngXxvfsQ0A@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 10:46:55 -0700
Message-ID: <CABkgnnXjnN4WZA4QB-N3-u_Or5tTt=gjFYbvZj9mWQcdZPA98g@mail.gmail.com>
From: Martin Thomson <martin.thomson@gmail.com>
To: Peter Thatcher <pthatcher@google.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Cc: "<rtcweb@ietf.org>" <rtcweb@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (adding multiple sources without encoding them in SDP)
X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list <rtcweb.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtcweb>
List-Post: <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 17:46:59 -0000
On 19 June 2013 08:15, Peter Thatcher <pthatcher@google.com> wrote: > Unfortunately, Microsoft's input seems to be "our way or the highway" The good thing about this forum is that correcting gross misrepresentation is as easy as it is to propagate it. Microsoft's input is that Offer/Answer is difficult to remove without also removing a reliance on SDP at the same time. CU-RTC-Web is a demonstration of one solution to that problem that we believe is workable. That proposal was input, not ultimatum. We'd be happy to consider other alternatives, but we don't believe that any attempt that retains both O/A and SDP to be a worthwhile step. The proposals I've seen for incremental refinement don't successfully avoid the SDPNG trap. Most increase the API surface area, often dramatically, which burdens both browser implementations and API users. I personally don't believe it to be possible to avoid this problem without tackling the core problem, which unfortunately requires a little bit of courage.
- [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (adding… Peter Thatcher
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Stefan Håkansson LK
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Peter Thatcher
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Jim Barnett
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Peter Thatcher
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Peter Thatcher
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… José Luis Millán
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Peter Thatcher
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Peter Thatcher
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… José Luis Millán
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Peter Thatcher
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Jim Barnett
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Robin Raymond
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Silvia Pfeiffer
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Matthew Kaufman (SKYPE)
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Matthew Kaufman (SKYPE)
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Matthew Kaufman (SKYPE)
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Robin Raymond
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Silvia Pfeiffer
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Peter Thatcher
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Peter Thatcher
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Peter Thatcher
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Peter Thatcher
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Peter Thatcher
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Silvia Pfeiffer
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Stefan Håkansson LK
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Enrico Marocco
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Enrico Marocco
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Emil Ivov
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Max Jonas Werner
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Robin Raymond
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Matthew Kaufman (SKYPE)
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Peter Thatcher
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Peter Thatcher
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Silvia Pfeiffer
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Silvia Pfeiffer
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Sergio Garcia Murillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Peter Thatcher
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Peter Thatcher
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Robin Raymond
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Peter Thatcher
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Peter Thatcher
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Matthew Kaufman
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Peter Thatcher
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Peter Thatcher
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Robin Raymond
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Peter Thatcher
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Peter Thatcher
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Robin Raymond
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Peter Thatcher
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Peter Thatcher
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Peter Thatcher
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Matthew Kaufman (SKYPE)
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Cullen Jennings (fluffy)
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Peter Thatcher
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Cullen Jennings (fluffy)
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Robin Raymond
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Stefan Håkansson LK
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Roy, Radhika R CIV USARMY (US)
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Cullen Jennings (fluffy)
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Peter Thatcher
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Cullen Jennings (fluffy)
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for a JS API for NoPlan (ad… Peter Thatcher