Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime
Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> Wed, 10 April 2024 17:31 UTC
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From: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2024 10:30:27 -0700
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To: Michael StJohns <msj@nthpermutation.com>
Cc: saag@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime
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On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 9:59 AM Michael StJohns <msj@nthpermutation.com> wrote: > On 4/10/2024 12:07 PM, Eric Rescorla wrote: > > > > I'm not proposing to push them away. I'm saying that that documentation > does not require an RFC but rather that an ID is fine. > > -Ekr > > > Hi Ekr - > > Saying an "ID is fine" does not make it so. > Sure. I'm just avoiding recapping my entire argument in every message. Let me ask a few clarifying questions which you haven't as yet answered: > Well, as they weren't asked, this is hardly surprising. 1) If you're going to use the ID as a stable reference, do you use the > entire name of the ID (including the version) or just a reference to the > datatracker page? > The version. What is the stable reference - a url to the text, pdf, html, xml > version? > I don't think this matters much. If these aren't equivalent, we have much bigger problems. > 2) If the ID changes (and hence there are later versions in the > datatracker), is IANA required to track those changes? > No. > Or was the ID that was current when the code point was assigned always and > forever the document to which the assignment refers? > Yes, unless it is reassigned, which can be done with the same process. 2a) Are you aware that for the existing ID refs in the IANA registry, the > IANA makes its own copy? > No, I wasn't, but I don't see that it matters. > And that for at least one ID ref, the copy in the registry is at least one > version behind the current datatracker info - e.g. already obsolete? > No, but I don't think this matters either, per my answer above. 3) If an ID - (draft-someone-mydraft-05) is abandoned and someone else > picks it ups and runs with it under their own name > (draft-someoneelse-samecontentasmydraft-00), is the IANA expected to track > that? > No. Or is the new author expected to make their own non-stable reference > request for a new code point? Or is there a policy that lets them > overwrite the existing registration? > I would imagine the latter. I expect this to be an edge case that we could resolve if and/when it became an issue. > 4) Let's say that someone gets tired of all of the ID mess and decides to > make it an RFC, is a new code point necessary? > Not from a process perspective. If the semantics have changed, this would obviously be required. 5) Has the LLC committed to never moving the datatracker from the current > URL? And maintaining the current naming scheme? Or can this disappear like > ftp.ietf.org and tools.ietf.org already have? > I don't see how this is relevant. The citation is not to the URL but to the document, regardless of where it is hosted. If it ever becomes the case that it's hard to find I-Ds by name, we have much bigger problems. > So if you want IDs to be stable references, write an RFC that addresses at > least all of the above, and get community buy-in in the form of RFC BCP > publication > As I noted in a previous reply to you, we already have RFC 8447, which has the presumption of community consensus, at least for the TLS case. You're of course free to object to extending that to other protocols or to propose changing 8447, though I would be quite surprised if you got consensus for the latter. -Ekr
- [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Loganaden Velvindron
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime D. J. Bernstein
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Harry Halpin
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Eric Rescorla
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Paul Wouters
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Simon Josefsson
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Loganaden Velvindron
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Eric Rescorla
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Eric Rescorla
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Eliot Lear
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Eric Rescorla
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Eliot Lear
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Orie Steele
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Eric Rescorla
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Eric Rescorla
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Eliot Lear
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Eric Rescorla
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Eliot Lear
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Eric Rescorla
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Jan-Frederik Rieckers
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Orie Steele
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Eric Rescorla
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Michael StJohns
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Eric Rescorla
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Orie Steele
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Salz, Rich
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Eliot Lear
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Melinda Shore
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Michael StJohns
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Salz, Rich
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Eric Rescorla
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Salz, Rich
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime S Moonesamy
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Michael StJohns
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Salz, Rich
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Michael StJohns
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Salz, Rich
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Salz, Rich
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Eliot Lear
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Michael StJohns
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Ira McDonald
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Michael Richardson
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Paul Wouters
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Simon Josefsson
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Christian Huitema
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Russ Housley
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Orie Steele
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Michael Richardson
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Loganaden Velvindron
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Loganaden Velvindron
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Michael Richardson
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Paul Wouters
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Michael Richardson
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Michael Richardson
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Paul Wouters
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Stephen Farrell
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Simon Josefsson
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Mark Baushke (ietf)
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Stephen Farrell
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime D. J. Bernstein
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Eric Rescorla
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Eliot Lear
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Salz, Rich
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Stephen Farrell
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Eric Rescorla
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Eric Rescorla
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Michael StJohns
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Eric Rescorla
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Michael StJohns
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime S Moonesamy
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Paul Wouters
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Watson Ladd
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Stephen Farrell
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Simon Josefsson
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime StJohns, Michael
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Watson Ladd
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Stephen Farrell
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Eric Rescorla
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Watson Ladd
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Michael StJohns
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime S Moonesamy
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Eric Rescorla
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime D. J. Bernstein
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Salz, Rich
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Paul Wouters
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime D. J. Bernstein
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Deb Cooley
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Christian Huitema
- Re: [saag] SSH & Ntruprime Simon Josefsson