Re: [tcpm] SYN/ACK Payloads, draft 01

"Adam Langley" <agl@imperialviolet.org> Thu, 14 August 2008 23:35 UTC

Return-Path: <tcpm-bounces@ietf.org>
X-Original-To: tcpm-archive@megatron.ietf.org
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tcpm-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F5DA3A6962; Thu, 14 Aug 2008 16:35:45 -0700 (PDT)
X-Original-To: tcpm@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tcpm@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C1323A6918 for <tcpm@core3.amsl.com>; Thu, 14 Aug 2008 16:35:44 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.472
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.472 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.505, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TFBT4YkmMaf2 for <tcpm@core3.amsl.com>; Thu, 14 Aug 2008 16:35:43 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from rv-out-0506.google.com (rv-out-0506.google.com [209.85.198.239]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63F1D3A68BF for <tcpm@ietf.org>; Thu, 14 Aug 2008 16:35:43 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by rv-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id b25so579881rvf.49 for <tcpm@ietf.org>; Thu, 14 Aug 2008 16:35:47 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender :to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references :x-google-sender-auth; bh=+ZdmdeFlbsk08SuG7P6+CPBjf9woqep0j6z4DJC1ZDs=; b=rP7b61AbdqtlCCz4ElBKaK5ToCODV4ThuMu6euujJOwoVJdpn/ysnicis9mZb2Tltu VUYL2TSxL9LyawB9eVDAHVamax9MRzP4QJ6sCk6ovmuanvnfj7WFsHEO9ESrGdtoPxYt lVxhldWv3MVYYvPTJewLhCrwPFa2uHk/Ig2u4=
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references:x-google-sender-auth; b=nOnRIJ3DRyxns3kJ74hEFp8YWWw/102dhld9SHm9uk3bzi7o1boZCLm64G+iN2i343 z6WIc447+0ANALA9Uzqv4pUyHS9P4mvqYlYEFjHfOZka5uhXtTr//GqkdsVPxOYsTKBo n+h0nvjj/2scaoV4mqLGUdE4CymfMr6p9R+Ns=
Received: by 10.140.133.9 with SMTP id g9mr1097967rvd.235.1218756947145; Thu, 14 Aug 2008 16:35:47 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.141.37.3 with HTTP; Thu, 14 Aug 2008 16:35:47 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <396556a20808141635s43981c99g301065585f22127c@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 16:35:47 -0700
From: Adam Langley <agl@imperialviolet.org>
To: Caitlin Bestler <Caitlin.Bestler@neterion.com>
In-Reply-To: <78C9135A3D2ECE4B8162EBDCE82CAD770417B23A@nekter>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Disposition: inline
References: <396556a20808111035s2b974233o1e9d3671e82e3350@mail.gmail.com> <48A465CC.8000402@isi.edu> <396556a20808141023s3abddc96u43b9e6e7898033ed@mail.gmail.com> <48A46BD3.4030408@isi.edu> <396556a20808141303k341599wfeef32d0841e9f76@mail.gmail.com> <48A491B9.3000209@isi.edu> <396556a20808141325u1e67c93co595eadeb3341539@mail.gmail.com> <48A4975D.3070303@isi.edu> <396556a20808141401of8ad149w5850e8dc552a9948@mail.gmail.com> <78C9135A3D2ECE4B8162EBDCE82CAD770417B23A@nekter>
X-Google-Sender-Auth: 61ee17a3b4be86db
Cc: tcpm@ietf.org, Joe Touch <touch@isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [tcpm] SYN/ACK Payloads, draft 01
X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group <tcpm.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tcpm>, <mailto:tcpm-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/private/tcpm>
List-Post: <mailto:tcpm@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tcpm-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tcpm>, <mailto:tcpm-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: tcpm-bounces@ietf.org
Errors-To: tcpm-bounces@ietf.org

On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 3:44 PM, Caitlin Bestler
<Caitlin.Bestler@neterion.com> wrote:
> So there *is* rationale for doing this at the transport layer. Whether
> there is *sufficient* rationale is subject to debate. My key reservation
> remains that this breaks a fundamental concept of TCP. Instead of the
> TCP payload being "a stream of bytes" it is now "an optional banner
> message sent only when the peer's TCP options indicate it can be
> parsed followed by a stream of bytes".

Just to correct one point - the banners are still seen as part of the
stream of bytes by both ends. The option communicates a single bit,
out of band, to both ends. I think that's the problem.

So it looks like the concenous for this is pretty thin.

(Un)fortunately, I'm persistant as hell, so I shall consider what
other avenues I have. I still firmly believe that a world with
opportunistic encryption would be a better world than we have now.

Cheers all,


AGL

-- 
Adam Langley agl@imperialviolet.org http://www.imperialviolet.org
_______________________________________________
tcpm mailing list
tcpm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tcpm