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Re: [tsvwg] Gorry Fairhurst Individual thoughts on choosing whether/how to advance ECN work.

Sebastian Moeller <moeller0@gmx.de> Sat, 23 May 2020 15:40 UTC

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From: Sebastian Moeller <moeller0@gmx.de>
In-Reply-To: <dd8e3896-2951-537f-e3d1-9954c93348dd@bobbriscoe.net>
Date: Sat, 23 May 2020 17:33:23 +0200
Cc: Paul Vixie <paul@redbarn.org>, Gorry Fairhurst <gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk>, Joseph Touch <touch@strayalpha.com>, tsvwg@ietf.org
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References: <dbc71da6-70f1-7369-1d2d-f08fb3b08b69@erg.abdn.ac.uk> <21483444.sDhFMENYeD@linux-9daj> <a85600da-e69f-9190-7ca1-d23a7e7246f9@bobbriscoe.net> <3267993.nvHYsSR2bi@linux-9daj> <dd8e3896-2951-537f-e3d1-9954c93348dd@bobbriscoe.net>
To: Bob Briscoe <ietf@bobbriscoe.net>
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Subject: Re: [tsvwg] Gorry Fairhurst Individual thoughts on choosing whether/how to advance ECN work.
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Bob,


> On May 23, 2020, at 17:07, Bob Briscoe <ietf@bobbriscoe.net> wrote:
> [...]
> 
> Another explanation is that L4S enables new interactive applications that are currently infeasible over the WAN.

	[SM] I have asked this before, but I am happy if I get a response this time: Which novel applications are possible now that the queuing delay has been reduced from ~10ms (fq_codel/cake, measured under real life traffic conditions on life internet access links) to ~1ms (L4S. dual queue coupled AQM under laboratory conditions)? This is the state of the art you compare against, not multiple 100s milliseconds of latency-under-load.
	Note, how for this question, I accept your claim of 1ms queueing delay even though testing indicates that this does not hold under all traffic patterns one is prone to encounter on a real internet access link (e.g. congestion on the reverse path). But really which application can not tolerate this additional 9ms of delay, yet is still a viable idea to deploy over the open internet? I note that real time control applications/reaction-time bound game services like google stadia and nvidia gforce now, are already deployed in today's internet, there really is nothing novel left as far as I can see
	Thanks in advance for the list of relevant new use-cases.

Best Regards
	Sebastian

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