Re: [v6ops] IPv6 mostly for DS-Lite

Gert Doering <gert@space.net> Wed, 20 March 2024 10:56 UTC

Return-Path: <gert@space.net>
X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 971DDC18DB9B for <v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Mar 2024 03:56:16 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -7.106
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.106 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=space.net
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bH_o1RITumdz for <v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 20 Mar 2024 03:56:12 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from gatekeeper1-relay.space.net (gatekeeper1-relay.space.net [IPv6:2001:608:3:85::38]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D54DAC14F70C for <v6ops@ietf.org>; Wed, 20 Mar 2024 03:56:09 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=space.net; i=@space.net; q=dns/txt; s=esa; t=1710932172; x=1742468172; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references: mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=lfUVLZA+L1eY5YHzqv2FfszoMdqe87riKfgzYUWoN/s=; b=NbsD0B0If/urmW1QpJnx5LJ5y5tnMvqJTebiFbwsncsAAmX0lZrAfIgb FaT8x8BgL8JiGq9bj6AA6ZBT6nr5LkdoTloiYJcFcxyS3GRUeIKDYW1to yrMyWFSwpaNoGRnyE3oyVDXCffgtkAVtFvngs7pjZRtSI0M+tEi9FHAMR XxU9Se/3Iq36TbM1LsnVWWgA7nB6bGRtnHpT6ZJNcuybvbfrkR4bjMhHM A5PgnRvjMOUSCwjLG8VGjGyxOwBZ8Gk/WIwTK549Gjhy8efzAcThJSUUB KJnqgyWnhT1Nad71oB4rB3Gl/L6wY5xmgOXRQyBZRT8duDBhUzFUAJaF2 Q==;
X-CSE-ConnectionGUID: EaMNNhYvQIKZqY4Q0lhPAw==
X-CSE-MsgGUID: AcS5rzUvRs6JQmgYKQXaDg==
X-SpaceNet-SBRS: None
Received: from mobil.space.net ([195.30.115.67]) by gatekeeper1-relay.space.net with ESMTP/TLS/ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 20 Mar 2024 11:56:06 +0100
X-Original-To: v6ops@ietf.org
Received: from mobil.space.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by mobil.space.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30EE44247A for <v6ops@ietf.org>; Wed, 20 Mar 2024 11:56:06 +0100 (CET)
X-SpaceNet-Relay: true
Received: from moebius4.space.net (moebius4.space.net [IPv6:2001:608:2:2::251]) by mobil.space.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E0DC407E3; Wed, 20 Mar 2024 11:56:06 +0100 (CET)
Received: by moebius4.space.net (Postfix, from userid 1007) id 1BAFD3552D; Wed, 20 Mar 2024 11:56:06 +0100 (CET)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2024 11:56:06 +0100
From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Mark Andrews <marka@isc.org>
Cc: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>, Lorenzo Colitti <lorenzo@google.com>, v6ops <v6ops@ietf.org>
Message-ID: <ZfrAxrloVYBojJj_@Space.Net>
References: <Zfqag8pqi3in3G5p@Space.Net> <2AA6E4EF-01CA-4CE5-AF73-9BCA4B0586B0@isc.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha256"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="PT9N4jzaljom0wgK"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <2AA6E4EF-01CA-4CE5-AF73-9BCA4B0586B0@isc.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/v6ops/8gVJUqeceIP0kRWH9dvNiqbnrRU>
Subject: Re: [v6ops] IPv6 mostly for DS-Lite
X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: v6ops discussion list <v6ops.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/v6ops>, <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/v6ops/>
List-Post: <mailto:v6ops@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops>, <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2024 10:56:16 -0000

Hi,

On Wed, Mar 20, 2024 at 09:04:09PM +1100, Mark Andrews wrote:
> So ISPs have to back out DS-lite and deploy NAT64 just so people can deploy IPv6 mostly. We have provided a number of IPV4AAS mechanisms which all work at the node level as well as CPE level.  It should be possible to support any of them. 
Mmmh, now I get your point - "if there is no pre-existing NAT64 gateway
due to use of DS-Lite, ISPs would have to change their infrastructure".

I tend to disagree - NAT64 could happen on the CPE for ipv6-mostly 
"behind the CPE" networks, and then going ahead with DS-Lite'ing the
resulting IPv4 packet.  Yes, NAT4444, but for legacy things only.

"What ISPs do" and "what is spoken in the LAN segment" is decoupled for
good reasons.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
have you enabled IPv6 on something today...?

SpaceNet AG                      Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Michael Emmer,
                                           Ingo Lalla, Karin Schuler
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14        Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann
D-80807 Muenchen                 HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen)
Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444         USt-IdNr.: DE813185279