Re: [v6ops] IPv6 mostly for DS-Lite

Ondřej Caletka <ondrej.caletka@gmail.com> Thu, 21 March 2024 09:53 UTC

Return-Path: <ondrej.caletka@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9605DC1CAF3C for <v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 21 Mar 2024 02:53:50 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.107
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.107 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id A1hDYSTgOQp6 for <v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 21 Mar 2024 02:53:50 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-pj1-x1034.google.com (mail-pj1-x1034.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1034]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 19E1AC18DB85 for <v6ops@ietf.org>; Thu, 21 Mar 2024 02:53:50 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-pj1-x1034.google.com with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-29fa10274e5so557297a91.3 for <v6ops@ietf.org>; Thu, 21 Mar 2024 02:53:50 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1711014829; x=1711619629; darn=ietf.org; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=IpIe47XgSNpfScvKM590os/savqDiNRWdZgxMt8N1eI=; b=MVfmvtkTZTW+qQXQBXVHfJzIwgDXYT6XaLDWV1Qbx9qCyufZVctAqmQqAmg6f7Na6d rs1cfytOfhWn4tMxV19PRy8rSYi+CqTz+VAQRp4jY2JCOmRAZB2bWdR4pIXZyyg4DBST NmmbjvxDJpTI2MzKz3DLzD9RsmrGpr+zvQ6HD+PsIYxRPewfIwgEtM1dH7aijBula8cv jxS8/16iYzkdYbVwjd9O3YrZUYYy3bCZ2U1AgluEhblkhwvIpHl74rxuaRrljzEoZ92N eKeRH9yiiEvcMrG1OFBgMMsCYu2yfrbmnPX2H1YfbjbmVKdoyEQ3qJC1SM5bXBF6a2wB AG2A==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1711014829; x=1711619629; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=IpIe47XgSNpfScvKM590os/savqDiNRWdZgxMt8N1eI=; b=SrqS6hEbqKlVzAQmu/B0m/oMGOdvljZafaVEBfD14fpmfxHYSaitdWkl034usb4+Kr z1XUReED/vW/ebHt8gzozU0NV6sEKEJa/I163OJBoa21us+aihcVHQIsghjtpz8QaWhK KWeUbKg+xiN9Ejp9SgH66SwoVPKY6bp6ybb6QmIYwLhjhnzGignD8qZ+FuW/t7mP7nOL pf5giTc97iy9Dn576e2iPsOHBJyWQhccR00CJEXmqN3HRQtX3dUEFkajcrY5i/It9w8b Wo464+0HEL+zzUgq/hBh2GIK6N2RHkHK2FjqLJQYy/UJnB3K/syIOZmExVOCRqv9Gh3x RDxQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yz51BtIBN6cpse89ofjqxmCUBh3H5dIWhUC7CgDtDxHNMUgKSRv htfOdvVtF9h75NJHmo7SNOSnfaTKMGa6GnKOItt0GYhQfFH7LUUmwT94rec2bSvIN3spjxvRFq8 cPihB7cl2501bhRp36rDvOOoXG4jQbQXvS22YPDOo
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEx2OxRax9KspR+S0cIyrhtIpShRagSqdl6zoi8UWPqgxJhzg9nlRoIRsJN4hYuNgWiBEo+g+1tVqF5cew5iyc=
X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:60e:b0:29d:eea9:c800 with SMTP id gb14-20020a17090b060e00b0029deea9c800mr15501170pjb.7.1711014829149; Thu, 21 Mar 2024 02:53:49 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <453A0844-6811-4F6C-BD93-B314B694AF87@isc.org>
In-Reply-To: <453A0844-6811-4F6C-BD93-B314B694AF87@isc.org>
From: Ondřej Caletka <ondrej.caletka@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2024 10:53:37 +0100
Message-ID: <CA+E65xSh0KEdiLDtfjc16+153Q3V_CsABdohrXHJ+cOhjd_Mow@mail.gmail.com>
To: v6ops <v6ops@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000018d816061428af3c"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/v6ops/WoQNDzCeJd7BD68MePrygZKTvXY>
Subject: Re: [v6ops] IPv6 mostly for DS-Lite
X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: v6ops discussion list <v6ops.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/v6ops>, <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/v6ops/>
List-Post: <mailto:v6ops@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops>, <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2024 09:53:50 -0000

>
>
> DHCPv4 option 108 is tied to 464XLAT.  DS-Lite is already has per host
> support defined.  DS-Lite only needs an equivalent DHCPv4 option that
> specifies DS-Lite is supported by the node rather than 464XLAT as is
> indicated by 108.
>

I see the point here. I was about to point out that NAT64 stands out from
all other transition mechanisms because it allows unmodified hosts to work
on an IPv6-only network, while the rest of transition mechanisms require
some sort of software running in each host to support the transition
mechanism.

However, the practice shows us that running unmodified hosts on a NAT64
network is not sufficient anyway. Switching to 464XLAT with a piece of
software required to run on every single host eliminates this key feature
of NAT64. In that sense, 464XLAT is not in any way better or worse than
DS-Lite, MAP-* or anything else.

Network operators should be able to choose different IPv4aaS mechanisms to
use in IPv6-mostly networks. I think it would be nice if DHCP option 108
had a bit field with transition mechanisms supported by the network. Upon
receiving the option, the client would decide whether it supports that
particular transition mechanism and either stopped DHCP transaction, if the
offered transition mechanism is supported, or continued further with native
IPv4 otherwise.

We are probably too late to extend option 108 without interoperability
issues. What could be done though would be another option with just this
bitfield of supported IPv4aaS mechanisms.

Personally, I would really like to have IPv6-mostly with MAP-* so I could
get a proper public IPv4 address even when running IPv6-only :)

--
Ondřej Caletka