Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-6man-grand : saving lookups

"Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com> Tue, 11 August 2020 22:02 UTC

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From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com>
To: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
CC: Fred Baker <fredbaker.ietf@gmail.com>, IPv6 List <ipv6@ietf.org>, "v6ops@ietf.org" <v6ops@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [v6ops] draft-ietf-6man-grand : saving lookups
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Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2020 22:02:39 +0000
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Subject: Re: [v6ops] draft-ietf-6man-grand : saving lookups
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Hello Ted

Some APs and controllers snoop the protocols and turn broadcasts to unicast day or drop them. The problem is that snooping gives us only an imperfect view of who is connected with IPv6.

I know for having written such code and tons of tricks, some of which we published either as drafts or patents.

We found the result to be non-satisfactory largely because of the limitations of snooping. So we brought RFC 8605 yo the IETF with no IPR attached.

I guess others will have to go through the same hassles ad we did and still do before they realize why we ended up with a stateful ND, not for all situations but for many modern use cases that involve a solid state in the network. Including APs. And fabrics.

I’m happy that Fred uses BGP, we do that too in eVPN. But how do you feed BGP? If the host does not speak BGP then we need a host to router interface that has similar properties but is abstract to the routing protocol.

There’s already 2 protocols, RPL and RIFT, that benefit from RFB 8505 advertisements to inject (redistribute) host addresses.

Take care,

Pascal

Le 11 août 2020 à 22:58, Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com> a écrit :

 On Aug 11, 2020, at 4:47 PM, Fred Baker <fredbaker.ietf@gmail.com<mailto:fredbaker.ietf@gmail.com>> wrote:
On the air interface, they are either transmitting or not. In the receiving NIC, the question is whether or not they store the message; if they are not configured to receive a certain multicast group, regardless of transmission type, they receive and store the message and then forget that they have done so, re-using the buffer for the next message. If they forward the message on, it uses the bandwidth on the other side, whatever it is, with the same destination address.

The place where one might distinguish “broadcast” from “multicast” is on a data center switch, where “multicast” might mean keeping a list of relevant ports and only sending to them. They want to send a message once. If they are sending the same message several times, “to whom” is an important question.

Hm. What I do know about WiFi is that actual multicast messages are not acknowledged (because they can’t be) and are therefore sent at lower data rates, so that multicasts occupy much larger time slices per packet. A multicast is notionally only intended for a subset of all connected nodes. If the WiFi base station knows which nodes are interested in a particular multicast address, and that number is small, then it would nearly always be faster to transmit the message to each node as a unicast.

The question is, for a particular WiFi AP, can it know which of its connected WiFi nodes are interested in a particular NS, or do we have to multicast it to every node?

If this is known in the data center, then it must be known on the AP, right?

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