Re: [v6ops] WG Doc? draft-gont-v6ops-ipv6-ehs-packet-drops

Nick Hilliard <nick@foobar.org> Thu, 17 March 2016 21:48 UTC

Return-Path: <nick@foobar.org>
X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F30412D5B0 for <v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 17 Mar 2016 14:48:48 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.201
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id K_kBRbZYSNeT for <v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 17 Mar 2016 14:48:46 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail.netability.ie (mail.netability.ie [IPv6:2a03:8900:0:100::5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5281B12D667 for <v6ops@ietf.org>; Thu, 17 Mar 2016 14:48:45 -0700 (PDT)
X-Envelope-To: v6ops@ietf.org
Received: from cupcake.foobar.org (089-101-070076.ntlworld.ie [89.101.70.76] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.netability.ie (8.15.2/8.14.9) with ESMTPSA id u2HLmYlU022404 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 17 Mar 2016 21:48:35 GMT (envelope-from nick@foobar.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: cheesecake.ibn.ie: Host 089-101-070076.ntlworld.ie [89.101.70.76] (may be forged) claimed to be cupcake.foobar.org
Message-ID: <56EB2630.2020208@foobar.org>
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 21:48:32 +0000
From: Nick Hilliard <nick@foobar.org>
User-Agent: Postbox 4.0.8 (Macintosh/20151105)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: otroan@employees.org
References: <A277BE71-BD70-4AFE-97DA-F224D7DBBCB8@cisco.com> <CALx6S353ognNHWnjbNSdW5hb_e6Hv3LqLa_r+e9yEW4F=cjH=A@mail.gmail.com> <56E6FC18.1060304@foobar.org> <CALx6S35pcSj_LLnDWJ68KwSYiHeu6FwrXTaR4N2xE6aY7MRO1A@mail.gmail.com> <CAHw9_iLbqEvsw0x4dDcA3Zy3SXKUROcQuy5nSynsL9Xi+xrZLg@mail.gmail.com> <566C93D0-62FF-4700-BC05-7F9AF12AF1BD@employees.org> <56E892B8.9030902@foobar.org> <394925FE-FAB1-4FFC-B1CF-4F64CC58F613@employees.org> <56E94275.20700@foobar.org> <3AE1DE20-D735-4262-A3FB-7C01F30BAFA2@employees.org> <56E96F74.7000206@foobar.org> <CALx6S37zP4UvCtBJsvnPN6OmDB0OQDMfRrJNy1XF0t4COStUjQ@mail.gmail.com> <56E98086.504 0209@foobar.org> <EE17974D-EDA4-4732-B29E-B2B3BC36DB86@employees.org> <56E9A16B.4030605@si6networks.com> <A2634C00-EBF8-48DA-9604-790F5213F536@employees.org> <56EA93C0.104090 4@si6networks.com> <34E270CB-AEB4-4034-99B8-1E6AB528CF67@employees.org> <d6967727-1fd6-1d43-0fbb- f665ed20e101@bogus.com> <3AE9BA3C-E7B6-4C0F-B6B4-5A737485123D@employees.org>
In-Reply-To: <3AE9BA3C-E7B6-4C0F-B6B4-5A737485123D@employees.org>
X-Enigmail-Version: 1.2.3
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/v6ops/OUQdHi41oY2QwnB0G3k01jKk8VA>
Cc: Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com>, "v6ops@ietf.org" <v6ops@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [v6ops] WG Doc? draft-gont-v6ops-ipv6-ehs-packet-drops
X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17
Precedence: list
List-Id: v6ops discussion list <v6ops.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/v6ops>, <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/v6ops/>
List-Post: <mailto:v6ops@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops>, <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 21:48:48 -0000

otroan@employees.org wrote:
> how is this "problem" any different from:
>  - "unknown" L4 header
>  - IPsec encryption
>  - L4 encryption (it's all port 443)
>  - tunnels

none of "unknown" L4 headers, L4 encryption or tunnels are subject to
the catastrophic levels of packet loss as measured in
draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6-ehs-in-real-world.  ipv6 ipsec wasn't measured in
that draft - it would probably have been useful if there were some easy
way to measure this.

It's not ok for the IETF to sit on its hands and pretend that this isn't
a protocol problem.  The EH mechanism as it stands is unworkable which
is causing breakage on production networks.  This needs attention from
the IETF because EHs provide core ipv6 functionality and without this
functionality, IPv6 is crippled as a protocol.

Nick