Re: Proposed IESG statement on referencing documents behind a paywall

[Toerless Eckert <[e-mail]>]

Thanks Suresh

1) Is there a specific event or events tha ha let to picking up this
topic now ? Just curious, because i thought we have lived with this
situation for a long time unchanged. E.g.: has IEEE raised its prices (which i
would know because of my companies subscription...) ?

2) Associated ask:

I would like IETF if we can have a process by which IEEE
documents that are references to IETF document can be made
available FOR FREE to the reviewers of those drafts during the draft->RFC process.
Aka: Some form of IEEE membership account for IETF WG chairs, simple
email statement from reviewer back to chair to not disseminate the
document, and then chairs could pass on those documents as requested by
reviewers.

Note that i would love to see this not only for normative but also
informative IEEE references to help reviewers.

I know this does not scale to arbitrary SDOs, but IEEE seems to be the
most important one, and i think this should work for IEEE, and i can't
see how this would run the risk of being massively abused if we have WG chairs in
control of access.

Cheers
    Toerless

On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 03:06:35PM -0700, Fred Baker wrote:
> To my way of thinking, it works.
> 
> It gives us a way to say "this really does have to be discussed" without outlawing it.
> 
> > On Jun 12, 2019, at 3:00 PM, Suresh Krishnan <[e-mail]> wrote:
> > 
> > Hi chairs,
> >  In the past we have dealt with a few drafts that have had normative references to paywalled documents and we have dealt with them on a case-by-case basis (usually during or after IETF last call). In order to get the working groups involved earlier in the process, the IESG is working on issuing a statement on how to deal with such drafts and we would greatly appreciate input from WG chairs on this topic. This is the proposed text of the statement
> > 
> > *** START TEXT ***
> > 
> > As described in Section 7.1 of RFC 2026, RFCs may have normative
> > references on external standards.
> > 
> > In some cases, however, those references are themselves not generally
> > available (for instance, they might be accessible only after paying
> > a fee). This can interfere both with the ability of implementers
> > to implement the protocol as well as with the ability of the IETF
> > community to review it.
> > 
> > In such cases:
> > 
> > 1. The WG MUST be explicitly informed of any such normative reference
> > and the WG MUST reach consensus that it is acceptable. The
> > document shepherd MUST include this information in the shepherd
> > writeup.
> > 
> > 2. The reference MUST be explicitly noted as part of the IETF Last
> > Call. If such a note is omitted, the last call MUST be repeated
> > after including it.
> > 
> > *** END TEXT ***
> > 
> > Please go over this text and let me know if you have any concerns, comments, or additions by 2019/06/26.
> > 
> > Thanks
> > Suresh
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Victorious warriors win first and then go to war,
> Defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win.
>      Sun Tzu
> 



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