Re: [apps-discuss] Revised DMARC working group charter proposal

"J. Trent Adams" <jtrentadams@gmail.com> Thu, 18 April 2013 20:46 UTC

Return-Path: <jtrentadams@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C73F621F934B for <apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 18 Apr 2013 13:46:56 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -3.099
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.500, BAYES_00=-2.599]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PNOeUYMz0ZFH for <apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 18 Apr 2013 13:46:56 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-ie0-x231.google.com (mail-ie0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::231]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB2B121F933B for <apps-discuss@ietf.org>; Thu, 18 Apr 2013 13:46:55 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-ie0-f177.google.com with SMTP id 9so3789955iec.8 for <apps-discuss@ietf.org>; Thu, 18 Apr 2013 13:46:55 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject :references:in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=vphHwoKtHg7hTCUUcwh4r+vGH9WZe14MhzixBk8f59s=; b=LRM2f+2dKPHelMSi8dJBhxmkBtmvVNNv5VQa+LqLnYHgnd4Pg+M4TmNlrQiAmxj9Od K6/CHJ/aHPUDDRXTgvVyqakdxfLVTLDHa/kibGeykVvs2O4W+VPXWZhOOpfpB6WXuCiC jo1FcuMMhr0aJnOSvn1G6Z1aBcj+Fw1cksubtb3cXf0vzQ2NypeCTqMGTQLG5rWGz6Y9 ijF1ItfS1EKii/z4fnwKA+2ovu+FvZLUZZO22MuqybU7yWHKzth5NI/mFWLuADjfcOWH D+3JAn7jNwVOPuImU1JCQRZhg7xE07m6c4WXXB88c3Encx1x12nJr4wflC3xJWoBH5Ya QZoQ==
X-Received: by 10.50.187.225 with SMTP id fv1mr7962740igc.74.1366318015376; Thu, 18 Apr 2013 13:46:55 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from jtrentadams-isoc.local (c-76-25-71-111.hsd1.co.comcast.net. [76.25.71.111]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id in10sm140710igc.1.2013.04.18.13.46.53 for <multiple recipients> (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 18 Apr 2013 13:46:54 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <51705BBD.3070907@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2013 14:46:53 -0600
From: "J. Trent Adams" <jtrentadams@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130328 Thunderbird/17.0.5
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: apps-discuss@ietf.org
References: <CAL0qLwbcH-yOj0MxfGghQZPwGMt5mRBY5U5zBxdXc1oX6SogHA@mail.gmail.com> <29070418.Ips48RWf4b@scott-latitude-e6320> <51701B63.1080204@dcrocker.net> <4299196.YodGhlyJ6a@scott-latitude-e6320>
In-Reply-To: <4299196.YodGhlyJ6a@scott-latitude-e6320>
X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.1
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: Re: [apps-discuss] Revised DMARC working group charter proposal
X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols <apps-discuss.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/apps-discuss>, <mailto:apps-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/apps-discuss>
List-Post: <mailto:apps-discuss@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:apps-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss>, <mailto:apps-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2013 20:46:57 -0000

Scott -

On 4/18/13 12:53 PM, Scott Kitterman wrote:
> On Thursday, April 18, 2013 09:12:19 AM Dave Crocker wrote:
>> On 4/16/2013 6:23 PM, Scott Kitterman wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, April 16, 2013 08:37:10 AM Dave Crocker wrote:
>>>> On 4/15/2013 8:58 PM, Scott Kitterman wrote:
>>>>> 1.  How about this?
>>>>> 2.  Not quite, here are some alternatives we could discuss.
>>>>> 1.  I quit.
>>>>>
>>>>> that's hardly a negotiation.
>>>> 1. The exchange was more elaborate than that,
>> ...
>>
>>>> 2. The lockout imagine is striking and entirely inapplicable, since
>>>> there is no pre-existing relationship, nevermind an employer/employee
>>>> one.
>>> Right.  It's an analogy and like all analogy is imperfect.
>> Scott,
>>
>> An analogy is supposed to demonstrate core properties that match the
>>
>> situation.  Similarly:
>>> Also imperfect, but perhaps less orthogonal might be the analogy of the
>>> kid
>>> that shows up at the playground with a cool new toy and stomps off and
>>> goes
>>> home when the other kids won't play with the toy precisely according to
>>> his
>>> rules.
>> entirely misses the point of what is currently happening.
>>
>>
>> The current exchange has had more of the flavor of:
>>
>>     A:    How about X.
>>     B&C:  That's unacceptable, so do alternatives Y or Z.
>>     A:    Here are the reasons those alternatives don't match the
>>           current situation and here are the distinctive characteristics
>>           of the current situation.
>>     B&C:  Do Y or Z
>>     {rinse repeat}
>>     A:    OK, how about A.
>>     B&C:  Do Y or Z
>>
>> After some iterations in this model, it become clear that the
>> negotiation isn't a negotiation.
>>
>> Until you and Stephen engage in discussing the substance of the
>> responses you've been getting, there isn't a meaningful discussion
>> happening.
> OK.  It seemed to me that in your analogy is was more like A saying "How about 
> X" over and over.
>
> Since you are a part of the DMARC development community, do you have a sense 
> of if that group is willing to support a working group charter that allows for 
> technical changes to be made in the protocol in the event significant technical 
> issues are discovered?

If I'm not mistaken, I think that the proposed charter makes provision
for exactly that happening. If enough data points are gathered through
the work of the group, it can decide to re-charter and crack open the
spec itself. We'll just want to be sure that it's a data-driven decision
rather than something more theoretical.

Does that hit close to what you're looking to achieve?

- Trent

>
> Scott K
> _______________________________________________
> apps-discuss mailing list
> apps-discuss@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss

-- 
J. Trent Adams

Profile: http://www.mediaslate.org/jtrentadams/
LinkedIN: http://www.linkedin.com/in/jtrentadams
Twitter: http://twitter.com/jtrentadams