Re: [clouds] Scope of the Cloud is too big

[Gene Golovinsky <[e-mail]>]

I am sure that different people are interested in aspects of Cloud technologies. Much as there are multiple areas of interest for the Internet.
But precisely because the conversation is still in its infancy it is probably useful to keep it in the same context at least for now.

In the same time to avoid talking past each other and to make the scope more manageable, should we pick a topic or two?
This way conversation will be more focused.

Can I suggest logging and auditing? Like I pointed out before, lack of consistent logging and auditing facilities prevents people requiring compliance from adopting cloud technologies.

--Gene





From: Bhumip Khasnabish [mailto:[e-mail]]
Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 11:07 AM
To: Linda Dunbar
Cc: Gene Golovinsky; [e-mail]; Mark Webb; [e-mail]
Subject: Re: [clouds] Scope of the Cloud is too big

of course there are and will be many workitems within the theme of cloud-based systems, services, inter-cloud system, and so on.  Cloud-based storage, cloud-based mobile-data backup service,  cloud-based network service in order to maintain service continuity, disaster-tolerant communications, etc. are a few examples. Can we keep the discussion in the same group please. Thanks a lot.
On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Linda Dunbar <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
I am looking at a very different angle of the "Cloud". Rather than the "IT functions as a service", I am looking at Virtual Network Services and Storage Services which can be offered by Service Providers.
Are there anyone else interested in this area? Maybe we should form a separate discussion group.

Linda Dunbar

________________________________
From: Gene Golovinsky [mailto:[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>]
Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 7:37 AM
To: Linda Dunbar; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>; 'Mark Webb'; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>

Subject: RE: [clouds] Scope of the Cloud is too big

While I agree that SaaS, IaaS and PaaS are different categories they all basically do the same thing - letting people consume IT functions as service.
As a result the same multiple problem spaces apply: users need to be authenticated, their access need to be controlled, activities audited, data protected, functionality provisioned and the list goes on.

Cloud Security Alliance mentioned earlier does not necessarily deal with those issues. I read their guidelines and it mostly deals with deployment recommendations, but the area of auditing for example is not really covered.

Ability to audit is really important if we want to insure that people that care about compliance actually use cloud technologies. Yet neither ability, nor technology for that is there. While traditional logging (syslog) is not good enough for the cloud simply because we are dealing with shared and dynamically allocated resources and user info is not consistently available.

--Gene



From: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]> [mailto:[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>] On Behalf Of Linda Dunbar
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 12:16 PM
To: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>; 'Mark Webb'; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [clouds] Scope of the Cloud is too big

I find it difficult that people in the same room talking about totally different subjects. Very hard to get the discussion moving forward.

Linda

________________________________
From: Carl Williams [mailto:[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>]
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 11:59 AM
To: 'Linda Dunbar'; 'Mark Webb'; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: [clouds] Scope of the Cloud is too big

The name is irrelevant and perhaps in future it could change to avoid distraction.  The technology discussions is what is key and that is what was discussed in the informal meeting.  From what I can tell the purpose was to get some informal discussion going first and see what people are thinking.  There seems to be some conclusion that the next step was to conduct a gap analysis.

Carl


From: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]> [mailto:[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>] On Behalf Of Linda Dunbar
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 11:48 AM
To: 'Mark Webb'; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Subject: [clouds] Scope of the Cloud is too big

I attended the CLOUD's bar BOF. I don't think it is appropriate for IETF to have a working group on "CLOUD" because it means different things to different people. Cloud computing is a general term for anything that involves delivering services over the Internet. I can see three basic categories:
*     Infrastructure-as-a-Service (IaaS<http://searchcloudcomputing.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,290660,sid201_gci1358983,00.html>),
*     Platform-as-a-Service (PaaS)<http://searchcloudcomputing.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,sid201_gci1332892,00.html> and
*     Software-as-a-Service (SaaS<http://searchcloudcomputing.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,290660,sid201_gci1170781,00.html>)

There are a lot of stuff under each of the categories above. I suggest separating them and further studying if there are enough contents for one of them to become a working group.

Linda Dunbar

________________________________
From: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]> [mailto:[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>] On Behalf Of Mark Webb
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 10:09 AM
To: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [clouds] Use cases

I was not there at the BoF, but did get reports from a couple of people in attendance.

An important perspective is to ensure IETF does NOT start a new effort that overlaps with other SDO and Forum already underway.  The industry does not need more SDO declaring they are relevant to cloud computing IMO.

Seeking contributions on relevant & IETF appropriate gap analysis is the _most_ that should be pursued at this point in time.

Mark Webb


On Apr 7, 2010, at 10:57 AM, Gene Golovinsky wrote:


Well, I think this is a topic worthy of IETF time and attention.
How can I help to move the discussion forward?

Was there any specific area out of the white paper discussed?
I think Cloud interoperability and security are topics were IETF is traditionally focusing its efforts.

--Gene


-----Original Message-----
From: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]> [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of Peter Saint-Andre
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 9:48 AM
To: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [clouds] Use cases

On 4/7/10 8:40 AM, Gene Golovinsky wrote:

>    2. I saw references to bar BoF at last IETF meeting, but could not
>       really figure out if the WG was chartered.

It was a bar BoF, not a real BoF. And IMHO the discussion was so nebulous that folks are a long way from forming a WG.

Peter

--
Peter Saint-Andre
https://stpeter.im/



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