Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-pool-opt?
Roberta Maglione <robmgl.ietf@gmail.com> Sun, 25 August 2013 22:04 UTC
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Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2013 18:04:18 -0400
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From: Roberta Maglione <robmgl.ietf@gmail.com>
To: Leaf Yeh <leaf.yeh.sdo@gmail.com>
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Cc: "dhcwg@ietf.org WG" <dhcwg@ietf.org>, Ralph Droms <rdroms.ietf@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-pool-opt?
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Hello Leaf, thanks for your comments please see inline [RM] Best Regards Roberta On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 11:51 AM, Leaf Yeh <leaf.yeh.sdo@gmail.com> wrote: > > Not sure you have interest to read draft (RAAN, > draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-agentopt-delegate) again. > I believe Bernie (or Tomek) have better answer for this question. > > [RM] The main difference here is that RAAN option was used to provide > per-client configuration/route while if I understand correctly your > proposal this option will be used to configure a per-box/per-relay route or > per-group of users (per-service) route on the relay as both you and Med > confirmed. > Roberta - How would it work with this new option? How does the DHCP Server > know if it has to add or not this option if it is not based on client > profile or on client request? > > The OPTION_PREFIX_POOL will be included in the Relay-Reply message for > DHCPv6-PD Reply to the clients. > Pls. read the draft (OPTION_PREFIX_POOL) for the details, Madam. > > > Roberta - Do you plan to insert the option in all the DHCP Server > replies/to all clients? > > Yes, almost every Relay-Reply message for Reply to the clients as > described in the draft. > > [RM] This is my point: you repeat the same option in every Relay-reply > message in order to do a one time/per-relay configuration in my opinion > this does not seem to be very efficient, but I may be wrong. > Roberta - I assume the router is going to install the route once and what > does it do if it gets the same routes more the one? Just ignore? > > Read the draft, keep in mind you have a smart PE with strong CPU. :-) > > > Roberta - It seems like a waste of cycles on the router. > > The OPTION_PREFIX_POOL proposed by the draft to include in the Relay-Reply > message is not more than 22 bytes with a fixed format. > Your concern here sounds not a problem. > > [RM] My point was not about the packet length, but more mode of > operation: you are asking the Relay to process multiple times the same > option in order to install a route that is already there. > Roberta - In my opinion having global parameters on DHCP Server seems a > major change in the DHCP model. > > The DHCPv6 server already has the ‘global parameters’, such as the prefix > pool … as you mentioned above. > The draft (OPTION_PREFIX_POOL) does intend to enhance the (deployment) > capability of DHCPv6 server. Pls. read my last reply mail to you & Med's > mail again. > The solution with a newly defined option is a solution we thought with a > minimal protocol change. > New capability from the new protocol design do need a little change on > your habit for the employment in your deployment. > > > > Best Regards, > Leaf > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Roberta Maglione > Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2013 2:52 AM > To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > Cc: dhcwg@ietf.org WG; Ralph Droms > Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing > draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-pool-opt? > > Hi Med, Leaf, > I fully understand the requirement for network automation versus manual > configuration, but I still don’t think defining a new dhcp option is the > right direction to go in order to do routes aggregations in a router. > As somebody else already pointed out here, if you need a way to > automatically interact with the router i2rs is the right place to discuss > your requirements. > In addition you said: > ➢ I confirm this option is not a per-customer configuration parameter. > If it is not a per-client configuration why would you like to use DHCP > for that? > I understand that in DHCP Server there are already some global parameters > like the pool of addresses to be used for the clients, but my understanding > of DHCP behavior , and please correct me if I’m wrong, is that the DHCP > Server provides a per-client configuration. > How would it work with this new option? How does the DHCP Server know if > it has to add or not this option if it is not based on client profile or on > client request? > Do you plan to insert the option in all the DHCP Server replies/to all > clients? > I assume the router is going to install the route once and what does it do > if it gets the same routes more the one? Just ignore? It seems like a waste > of cycles on the router. > In my opinion having global parameters on DHCP Server seems a major > change in the DHCP model. > Thanks > Roberta > > On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 2:15 AM, <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote: > Hi Roberta, > > Yes, as indicated in the document, manual configuration is an option… but > it has its limits too. > > This proposal is a contribution to add more automation to network > configuration without requiring an additional dynamic protocol to drive how > aggregates are built in a router co-located with a requestor, and therefore > interact in a more dynamic fashion with a routing protocol (e.g., drive > route withdrawals, etc.). > > Of course, some routers can offer some features to optimize the size of > routing tables and prevent from injecting (very) specific entries. But > still this behavior is implementation-specific and does not provide the > same aggregation level as the one proposed in this document. > > Unlike implementation-specific behaviors, this proposal is deterministic > since it is fully controlled by the entity which has the full knowledge of > prefix related states and network policies: e.g., the server has the > knowledge of prefix assignment, prefix assignment policies, prefix > aggregates, etc. > > I confirm this option is not a per-customer configuration parameter. > > Cheers, > Med > > > De : Roberta Maglione [mailto:robmgl.ietf@gmail.com] > Envoyé : jeudi 22 août 2013 22:31 > À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN > Cc : Ralph Droms; dhcwg@ietf.org WG > > Objet : Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing > draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-pool-opt? > > Hello, > Maybe I’m missing something here, but I’m struggling to see the value > added by this new option in terms of route aggregation functionality. > Today with IPv4 if I need to summarize some routes I manually configure on > the router a summary/aggregate route and I announce it into the routing > protocol. Moving to IPv6 you could do the same thing, I don’t quite get > what’s wrong with that? > You say you would like to have an automatic way to tell the PE to > aggregate the routes, but if I understand correctly the proposal what you > are doing here is only moving the configuration of the summary route from > the PE to the DHCPv6 Server; what do you really save here? > In addition the route aggregation is not a per customer configuration, it > would be per box or per service configuration so why do you want to add it > to customers’ profile in DCHPv6 Server? > Thanks > Roberta > > On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 9:45 AM, <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote: > Re-, > > IMHO, draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-agentopt-delegate does not cover the same > objectives as in draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-pool-opt. > > draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-pool-opt aims to provide a dynamic means to > trigger route advertisement actions and to control the route aggregates to > be injected using a routing protocol. For example, a router can be told by > the DHCP server to advertise an aggregate even if not all individual > prefixes are assigned to customer located behind that router. This is a > measure that can help in optimizing routing tables and avoid injecting very > specific routes. Snooping the assignment and then guide the route > advertisement actions may not be lead to the same optimized routing tables, > because there will be "holes" that will prevent aggregating routes. > > Having an explicit channel like the one specified in > draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-pool-opt is superior IMHO. > > Cheers, > Med > > > >-----Message d'origine----- > >De : dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de > >Ralph Droms > >Envoyé : jeudi 22 août 2013 14:48 > >À : Alexandru Petrescu > >Cc : dhcwg@ietf.org WG > >Objet : Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6- > >prefix-pool-opt? > > > > > >On Aug 21, 2013, at 9:24 AM 8/21/13, Alexandru Petrescu > ><alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> Hi, > >> > >> One point I think is essential is the installment of routes in the DHCP > >> Relay upon Prefix Assignment. > >> > >> The base DHCPv6 Prefix Delegation RFC does not stipulate that DHCP must > >> install a route in the DHCP Relay upon delegation. > >> > >> This draft seems to at least assume it, and to describe much more about > >> it: how various parts of assigned prefixes are aggregated and > >communicated. > >> > >> I support it. > > > >After a quick read, draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-agentopt-delegate seems to have > >been aimed at the same problem. If I have that right, it might be > >instructive to review the dhc WG mailing list discussion that lead to the > >abandonment of draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-agentopt-delegate. > > > >- Ralph > > > >> > >> Alex > >> > >> Le 21/08/2013 14:41, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com a écrit : > >>> Hi Tomek, > >>> > >>> I do still think draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-pool-opt documents a > >>> useful feature in order to have more automation and also control > >>> routes aggregation instead of relying on proprietary behaviors of > >>> each implementation. Of course, part of these objectives can be > >>> achieved if routes are installed manually or use an out of band > >>> mechanism to enforce routing aggregation policies. Still, the > >>> proposal in draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-prefix-pool-opt is superior > >>> because the DHCP server has the knowledge of the prefix assignments; > >>> and therefore routes can be triggered with dhcpv6 . > >>> > >>> A way to progress with this document is to target the Experimental > >>> track. Based on the experience that will be gained in real > >>> deployments, the status can be revisited if required. > >>> > >>> Cheers, Med > >>> > >>>> -----Message d'origine----- De : dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org > >>>> [mailto:dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Tomek Mrugalski > >>>> Envoyé : lundi 19 août 2013 16:52 À : dhcwg Objet : [dhcwg] Anyone > >>>> interested in continuing draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6- prefix-pool-opt? > >>>> > >>>> During Berlin meeting chairs asked if there is still interest in > >>>> the prefix-pool-option. There was nobody interested in the work in > >>>> the room. The unanimous consensus in the room was to drop it. I > >>>> just wanted to confirm that on the list. > >>>> > >>>> If you are interested in this work, want to support it and > >>>> participate in it, please let us know by replying to the mailing > >>>> list. Otherwise we'll drop this work and mark that draft as a dead > >>>> WG document. > >>>> > >>>> Please respond within 2 weeks (until Sep. 2nd). > >>>> > >>>> Bernie & Tomek _______________________________________________ > >>>> dhcwg mailing list dhcwg@ietf.org > >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg > >>> _______________________________________________ dhcwg mailing list > >>> dhcwg@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> dhcwg mailing list > >> dhcwg@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg > > > >_______________________________________________ > >dhcwg mailing list > >dhcwg@ietf.org > >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg > _______________________________________________ > dhcwg mailing list > dhcwg@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg > > > >
- [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft-iet… Tomek Mrugalski
- Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft… Leaf Yeh
- Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft… Tomek Mrugalski
- Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft… Ted Lemon
- Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft… Ted Lemon
- Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft… Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft… Ted Lemon
- Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft… Leaf Yeh
- Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft… Sten Carlsen
- Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft… Ole Troan
- Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft… Jean-Francois.TremblayING
- Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft… Sten Carlsen
- Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft… Sten Carlsen
- Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft… Ralph Droms
- Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft… Leaf Yeh
- Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft… Sten Carlsen
- Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft… Leaf Yeh
- Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft… Leaf Yeh
- Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft… Ted Lemon
- Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft… Leaf Yeh
- Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft… Roberta Maglione
- Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft… Leaf Yeh
- Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft… Ole Troan
- Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft… Ole Troan
- Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft… sthaug
- Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft… Leaf Yeh
- Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft… Leaf Yeh
- Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft… Roberta Maglione
- Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft… Leaf Yeh
- Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft… Roberta Maglione
- Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft… Leaf Yeh
- Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft… Ralph Droms
- Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft… Leaf Yeh
- Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft… Leaf Yeh
- Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft… Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft… Leaf Yeh
- Re: [dhcwg] Anyone interested in continuing draft… Tomek Mrugalski
- [dhcwg] Announcing draft-petrescu-relay-route-pd-… Alexandru Petrescu