Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption - draft-west-let-localhost-be-localhost

Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com> Thu, 07 September 2017 04:42 UTC

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From: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2017 00:42:09 -0400
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To: Mark Andrews <marka@isc.org>
Cc: Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net>, dnsop WG <dnsop@ietf.org>, Tim Wicinski <tjw.ietf@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption - draft-west-let-localhost-be-localhost
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Mark, I really don't think this is a human rights issue. Is there something
that will break for you if the secure denial of existence is left in place?

On Sep 7, 2017 12:17 AM, "Mark Andrews" <marka@isc.org> wrote:

>
> In message <CAHw9_iKBDY9hNThOY3GDeG7BbCkc8Ncy1T=rjpcQ=h5qdB7=
> UQ@mail.gmail.com>
> , Warren Kumari writes:
>
> > On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 10:35 AM, Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com> wrote:
> > > On Sep 6, 2017, at 10:33 AM, tjw ietf <tjw.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks.  The document still waffles, but it 'waffles less' than it did
> > > initially.  But Mike is committed to working that and any other issue
> > which
> > > may arise.
> > >
> > >
> > > The question I really have is not whether Mike is willinghe's stated
> > that
> > > he is.   It's whether the working group is willing, since returning
> > NXDOMAIN
> > > is an actual change in behavior from the original specification in RFC
> > 6761,
> > > and will likely result in some breakage, since it can safely be assumed
> > that
> > > some stacks are currently following the RFC6761 advice.
> > >
> >
> > Actually, I suspect that the breakage will be fairly minimal -- Google
> > Public DNS appears to have been returning NXDOMAIN since launch:
> > dig +nocmd +nostats localhost @8.8.8.8
> > ;; Got answer:
> > ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NXDOMAIN, id: 55075
> > ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 1, ADDITIONAL: 0
> >
> > ;; QUESTION SECTION:
> > ;localhost. IN A
> >
> > ;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
> > . 14208 IN SOA a.root-servers.net. nstld.verisign-grs.com. 2017090502
> > 1800 900 604800 86400
>
> Which shows absolutely nothing.
>
> Is 'localhost.' assigned for use by my local machine?  I believe
> the answer to that is: Yes.  If if is assigned for use then with
> DNSSEC there MUST be a delegation in the root or is this working
> group going to overstep its mandate and tell me how I can use the
> name localhost.  ICANN stuffed up by not adding the delegation when
> the root zone was signed.  It was necessary then and it is still
> necessary now.
>
> If we want to create a alternative name and give it much more
> restrictive properties than the current assignment of localhost has
> then I'm fine with that.  It is actually the correct fix for the
> problem statement.  Fiddling with the properties of localhost after
> it has been in use for decades isn't the way to address this issue.
>
> Mark
>
> > and Verisign returns NOERROR (probably also since launch):
> > dig +nocmd +nostats localhost @64.6.64.6
> > ;; Got answer:
> > ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 44657
> > ;; flags: qr aa rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 0
> >
> > ;; QUESTION SECTION:
> > ;localhost. IN A
> >
> > ;; ANSWER SECTION:
> > localhost. 10800 IN A 127.0.0.1
> >
> >
> > This doesn't seem to have caused any breakage - or, at least, we
> > haven't heard of any, and apparently basically no-one had noticed a
> > difference :-)
> >
> > W
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > DNSOP mailing list
> > > DNSOP@ietf.org
> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad
> > idea in the first place.
> > This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing
> > regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair
> > of pants.
> >    ---maf
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > DNSOP mailing list
> > DNSOP@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop
>
> --
> Mark Andrews, ISC
> 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia
> PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742                 INTERNET: marka@isc.org
>