Re: [hrpc] new title for draft-tenoever-hrpc-political

[Tony Rutkowski <[e-mail]>]

Niels,

On page 8, you discuss the WTO and technical standards.  You don't
provide a reference, but presumably are referring to the GATS - which
were adopted in part to further enable the emergence of internets
globally following the adoption of the 1988 ITU Melbourne treaty which
allowed them to be deployed internationally.  However, a good example of
standards politics which persists today, is the WTO's reference to only
ITU-T and ISO standards.  It is unfortunate, but the ITU representative
to the WTO at the time (myself) inserted the reference.  mea culpa.

Other thought on your paper.  The dimensions you raise with respect to
politics and standards have existed since the first multilateral
internet meeting dealing with standards in 1850.   Bill Drake has spent
his academic career treating the subject.  All standards activities of
ever kind involves politics, and an enormous body of work exists on the
subject over many decades.  In most places in your paper,  you could
simply drop the IETF references.  The IETF is not really different from
any others.   The paper would have broader  impact by applying to
standards bodies writ broadly.

If you want to see an example of some contemporary international
internet cybersecurity politics involving standards and legal
instruments, see
http://www.circleid.com/posts/20180725_itu_critical_cybersecurity_role_and_the_2018_plenipotentiary/

best,
tony



On 27-Jul-18 5:09 AM, Niels ten Oever wrote:
> Hi chairs,
>
> With unanimous support for 'Notes on networking standards and politics'
> on the list as a title for draft-political, it seems like the final
> hurdle for RG adoption of the document (as discussed in Montreal) has
> been passed, right?
>
> Can I publish it as RG document with the new title?
>
> Best,
>
> Niels
>
> On 07/20/2018 08:00 PM, Amelia Andersdotter wrote:
>> On 2018-07-20 10:33, Corinne Cath wrote:
>>> I like a.) Notes on networking standards and politics part of this
>>> whole process imho is to get people to read the doc to begin with,
>>> which seems most likely with a clear and recognizable title. my 2
>>> cents, corinne 
>>>
>> yeah, a)
>>
>> +1
>>
>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 1:19 AM, Mark Perkins
>>> <marknoumea=[e-mail]
>>> <mailto:marknoumea=[e-mail]..org>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     'Notes on networking standards and politics'
>>>
>>>     get my vote!
>>>
>>>     Mark Perkins
>>>
>>>     On Friday, July 20, 2018, 10:10:27 AM GMT+11, Niels ten Oever
>>>     <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>     Off-list discussion with Stephen resulted in a new option:
>>>
>>>     'Notes on networking standards and politics'
>>>
>>>     That gives us a few options:
>>>
>>>     a) Notes on networking standards and politics
>>>     b) On Value Neutrality and the Politics of Standards
>>>     c) Notes on Value Neutrality and the Politics of Standards
>>>     d) ?
>>>
>>>     Curious to hear what the RG thinks sounds best, new suggestions
>>>     ofc also
>>>     welcome.
>>>
>>>     Best,
>>>
>>>     Niels
>>>
>>>     On 07/20/2018 12:43 AM, Niels ten Oever wrote:
>>>     >
>>>     >
>>>     > On 07/20/2018 12:38 AM, Stephen Farrell wrote:
>>>     >>
>>>     >> Hiya,
>>>     >>
>>>     >> On 19/07/18 23:33, Niels ten Oever wrote:
>>>     >>> Hi all,
>>>     >>>
>>>     >>> Thank you all very much for the spirited discussion at the
>>>     session. To
>>>     >>> resolve the issue with draft political and remove the last
>>>     issue mention
>>>     >>> blocking adoption I would like to propose to rename the draft:
>>>     >>>
>>>     >>> On Value Neutrality and the Politics of Standards
>>>     >>
>>>     >> Meh:-)
>>>     >>
>>>     >> How'd something more like "Some background on networking standards
>>>     >> and politics" work? That seems to describe the content of the draft
>>>     >> better to me, (modulo not having carefully read the latest rev,
>>>     as I
>>>     >> admitted at the mic, so don't take me too seriously.)
>>>     >>
>>>     >> My reason for suggesting that is to try end up with something that
>>>     >> would be less surprising for an IETF (or IEEE 802 or W3C...)
>>>     reader.
>>>     >>
>>>     >
>>>     > Exactly that audience is saying time and again that 'technology is
>>>     > neutral' / 'protocols are neutral' / 'standards are neutral'.
>>>     That is I
>>>     > would like to address that in the title (and the draft).
>>>     >
>>>     > Following work can then address how we could come up with
>>>     approaches to
>>>     > address that.
>>>     >
>>>     >
>>>     >> Cheers,
>>>     >> S.
>>>     >>
>>>     >>
>>>     >>>
>>>     >>> Would that work for you all? I also added a few mentions of value
>>>     >>> neutrality (and the lack thereof) for consistency in the abstract,
>>>     >>> introduction, conclusion and the way forward.
>>>     >>>
>>>     >>> Changes can be seen here:
>>>     >>>
>>>     https://github.com/nllz/IRTF-HRPC/commit/03826cd73959e692bb1f7aa305f9fbdee325dbd2#diff-fb9d617868a367dd946ef225cc5e6de1
>>>     <https://github.com/nllz/IRTF-HRPC/commit/03826cd73959e692bb1f7aa305f9fbdee325dbd2#diff-fb9d617868a367dd946ef225cc5e6de1>
>>>     >>>
>>>     >>> Happy to discuss.
>>>     >>>
>>>     >>> Best,
>>>     >>>
>>>     >>> Niels
>>>     >>>
>>>     >
>>>
>>>     -- 
>>>     Niels ten Oever
>>>     Researcher and PhD Candidate
>>>     Datactive Research Group
>>>     University of Amsterdam
>>>
>>>     PGP fingerprint      2458 0B70 5C4A FD8A 9488
>>>                       643A 0ED8 3F3A 468A C8B3
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Corinne Cath
>>> Ph.D. Candidate, Oxford Internet Institute & Alan Turing Institute
>>>
>>> Web: www.oii..ox.ac.uk/people/corinne-cath
>>> <http://www.oii.ox.ac.uk/people/corinne-cath>
>>> Email: [e-mail] <mailto:ccath@turing..ac.uk> &
>>> [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
>>> Twitter: @C_Cath
>>>
>>>
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>>