IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [hrpc] new title for draft-tenoever-hrpc-political

Tony Rutkowski <rutkowski.tony@gmail.com> Sat, 18 August 2018 18:32 UTC

Return-Path: <rutkowski.tony@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0830A130E8B for <hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 18 Aug 2018 11:32:10 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oMOQioHdi2Ia for <hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 18 Aug 2018 11:32:07 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-qt0-x22c.google.com (mail-qt0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 97C721292F1 for <hrpc@irtf.org>; Sat, 18 Aug 2018 11:32:07 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-qt0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id m13-v6so12270078qth.1 for <hrpc@irtf.org>; Sat, 18 Aug 2018 11:32:07 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:openpgp:autocrypt:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=DFEJBFI8HQoRVs5LoJgYBnBQH92abkYZ8phRI6a12Vc=; b=NG/X9uqe+dUkdzoGSEylT/PkWzyoaa+21Z+IJmYxz6RbaLM4DRelSBWwyzdPQgkEqT 69uXM0Ls5U2n4+1xqSSQC6KXsIVSV/yRM41QF70Nxzt84tN0Xfh3sARnH1bub5/8CnOi n+7JPdYUq4pFz8W+PZ9evOPNkJEJ3XBJzzcQUtDdufvZdfPlm/Q4+zI/cuVT/VPNE90L 6V+2S/v9sUV5O9juKZd7yNmR8uh8lApBoZmyYmakJrNk778/2SMZkwvFtS3xv3XHbqYv j0U8M4iDNZVpRH5QC9fK6X69lmVixfeA+VAo+hxoYPvt53eX+tG242rxRKf1Hq9yJgXo UGlg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:openpgp:autocrypt :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=DFEJBFI8HQoRVs5LoJgYBnBQH92abkYZ8phRI6a12Vc=; b=o8i93Jze5ksq1KwNmXKNv8exQmsKnmEkjSFr+096OfU0T2FWQhwLF87NLovhXt2WiK KZyIIppaZT2Kj0NkZtv06wi8HljZxZBoeI5u8i6SE66Y1Tcw8dPkajsOXIppHMGbZfFm UaMBtKddSvob6DfUHpU6ghShp+OTRFLLlojrnUyjeVf5EyuYplEon6VW6Zxlt2pI6zj+ qrhx853Oi7MOV5SJtH9jAfjXRZ0Xm6+psjNAoG0GnJ9NsRkOrLNAxT7indcayihHvt/X jg7L9tk7qfN1HFrngEoYm1bVD/enzVVY0UKCv9ismx6oHK0JfJHWwBtkjLIZC+B3Zjif QB2w==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlFw5Y6/OAgEXwdYVpH7TfImhcspdlcXbnDIyKTeVN3McZC9CDPj vThDlhikiVj3b/OB91md4y9EBofa
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ANB0VdZFHOlZfDSgBf+sdc2qpbKiyyh849WaPaTyOjgPg/mw1ApEt/B5VcXXpJ+3l/dNxL6xmnLOmQ==
X-Received: by 2002:ac8:4758:: with SMTP id k24-v6mr5711829qtp.232.1534617126229; Sat, 18 Aug 2018 11:32:06 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.1.53] (pool-173-67-203-81.clppva.fios.verizon.net. [173.67.203.81]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m95-v6sm3330101qte.69.2018.08.18.11.32.05 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 18 Aug 2018 11:32:05 -0700 (PDT)
To: Niels ten Oever <mail@nielstenoever.net>, hrpc@irtf.org
References: <8bc79f07-2eb8-bbb7-d3ff-23a10128f957@nielstenoever.net> <0cd24636-22df-d67e-5f3a-4e0de3b5e9a9@cs.tcd.ie> <db3d4143-85a2-76b0-cf41-b61d6f1dfca1@nielstenoever.net> <465f6821-8fd3-c6c1-c4af-bf77ca892421@nielstenoever.net> <391557389.6941958.1532042355138@mail.yahoo.com> <CAD499eLF1FSfCB4S-V9+7R86-UzUHe6wq373e1LpYTwA8UTLnA@mail.gmail.com> <3e310fa3-dab7-0083-e969-eaae180091df@article19.org> <c9ed0354-fbe1-ce51-f67c-730668b679d2@nielstenoever.net> <0bae1b54-e247-61df-0660-0dfb672ea56f@nielstenoever.net> <38e7ab0b-3867-e7fd-54fc-9e2b480993af@gmail.com> <85342cd2-7a6a-b147-b51f-f3cf41459857@nielstenoever.net>
From: Tony Rutkowski <rutkowski.tony@gmail.com>
Openpgp: preference=signencrypt
Autocrypt: addr=rutkowski.tony@gmail.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBFolz+gBEACo+XkmnKmogov4Fccwgmn8L6mwqVQEU6dkW0Pwbw+PBnRf1RNAZk6J960Q C6Omh9NjQCANG5B9WMiXGd7WPdodD8ghuTJBJpFaB6omvix9SJ1NOiirbtA676AR035cV6y7 7wb0mZ+Boyq72UFgcjsKxpZxK+dIK9UcbkvceSrpAr7fxIaAi/2eTU6EA0+5MX2nhPdLTQHt S1FKRW56++pMUbpKkQjEvj3qMku6WUPnqKrnpaH/DP1fSwTkbIr6pkcby8V+DcY5+mnjRc7L FFp15OX9SmNWDSs0rYkhJ6tlPR1DVmzzhG05dZtI+fbxF20AJfO19U5vIQumZwshOHiLvjqn 9x1bjoiAXng9KQMDwmV5/TQhEdXddiDnPkbNv6XNAYJFevlS766xsG4QMrgzjaAbPEfpGcP7 PBRstyHHTgUbbOaWPUEiaq7eGM6MWCovv30aVpa2hM9MTmDeBvJAm9F0V3a/8uWQtRqWTUid RmfJKkI66w26k6XQcszhaVAkH5cr7/s1QF63Vnr33nxW6vG1iT3FPE+o3Wo3892oj+mORclx BK/4ZL+vF7LoWcoOCu6Id0dEhrkHLjmsnO2Pf+uU+OH68a7mMkz1gS6Fq0NEOy+4WbhiwLK4 3N/g1lZJh3f0f664JjTHlpL3pTZSnMZLlfy0Q1J0CKVCNgdXwwARAQABzSlUb255IFJ1dGtv d3NraSA8cnV0a293c2tpLnRvbnlAZ21haWwuY29tPsLBfwQTAQgAKQUCWiXP6AIbIwUJCWYB gAcLCQgHAwIBBhUIAgkKCwQWAgMBAh4BAheAAAoJENhM+Z2YMDfkZYsP/As/vxZTkm5MGqI8 T/F+0EJyaNlRaN94JaDeh0khRY9aKs0hio3iwT+uRC7UXXjpCdeOhjKn8wjtFYaOSGzBWRPO zxWRntmZY0g+Jxx9dkFXXCYeuMzlnQagnJ/MFjsLWZQg+/j9kBoQZiXzyEGoYYOd46OIvViZ 4HWEE+dV/23UjiYuU70AcoMPOtQ+9UIIxPISQwhZMLyZmQDEdI9OgKmrOpXeIb0Ctba3/OmW mx/PjsJJIA7s/IoOsmgVZBFQ2lQluMcM9SJrNkzPdpsAz2cp9L0XgREIdCz+1FvMmYs5NFTO ln/ATXYAxuBbTg953ZuIpjT9c2D6R6ji98h43zzp3F82v9t6SiaqkjJbUXzTVi4QpqIWmRx6 beTBUdnUVQxw+QpK8+EFp6QHC5MGFKo1FoJDWbn4FNYPQfEmuq7MgjCDUGfErU7M0wvxhZ3o /mgtfR44pk8KMKSfVY1rvzXgMDrMFu/Mv9HvBlNoyTydgV2dX4O+106Olv0fwKwdj3yqHNmS hkBdq5GeACEsEuVFQiOdbmdPmcvONJZx478yUsSRP0iTEgy5qc7RlsSNGV/12B+GHEeE4OTy LWm3s5LO40nveULeeWwZ+0Q6iTfSWLhXjbaNNdZnBt/DaM6qn9h21Px42PyE8NGQvjKXOX7+ 3JXViCzbeHkgIfTo73gozsFNBFolz+gBEAC2jf+HVxcM3AdwP88bK/XLA/K0pWmszImDT41y wSpZ7asVuawuO1Bl+byHOukTmsnOQ/PFiQ19j+HXSlIxsEDgoc9OqkMVrj0BDevKM9krwyyZ lC0TbtwH6KugmJ2eUeJnfMpuwLUVq7Icqh5qwneoBj5j2gxWeMZJ8FeT0I5lBHDhu4W3iFuj akku4fCF2gpNnXCXh8WGuTCsDXyBe+kwbUIBBQBwVaUSJAQh/ai7xnB1GZOGSqfBkyCJ7C/A ZVu13lgX747keGiNwWQAFiYuhzgSrGHex9tvRLuzkmg/xfLrYdVOubr6M3JGpIK64YeIQskC O7OCyH5u/tT3w5lNqMIufJ43lISu54Gaqwb7ddNfNLqnF/k+IghYStJo7OL9OqoA77GO15xH 52j7aMiiwPKxJAdhLArg+YAB+iD3LUfnMvWKO9gWvtmlHw3fhZ9zG+hjOUUe+QSKqPvmop48 tzuPEYC91HYNEvXN7d/p1T9Ms95qjvTdVCbV1ibsfW6NAeQjsvecvJVk1kvdCGoe5PZycF3D vJf+jyH/K832BJS4jQFob9tRjXTKEcL+E3V7IKVHJTRU4M1xo4iOQ7mT3+uNBVFMVqybY7f/ 9ipHKhCH3fAavuabAyczOznO0d54uz0J8Vdl+kWBrTdWyeipm9ai4M/vgfhcWQXELYEWPwAR AQABwsFlBBgBCAAPBQJaJc/oAhsMBQkJZgGAAAoJENhM+Z2YMDfkl40P/2AndYTSm4bRas5D j6og/hJE6uFKAL6IaP6U5ZWq5PUzWxlO/D4CP6z5JZ/w75yXDGuTcVhBGgmTVFmF1zfNP+Vy d4ieMSzCxal6m7EPVkh6H6O2nwuhVZZe9qhtXN73h1j85+FzuwkEffhFlSct4eEAVJLQ6bDI vo/2OVPx1HTqvHs5+DOKz73WVLVuYsR+e1jpu/bErlsMeUop9k0S9Dm4/jeCX7IW5fH4Yfcr 6pHhp44IsGLV2T9/HrgfN/TXnBpEJDdSvLlDqgr2bjphvvSX+YLDOunp/SZMOV+sY6Qz7TTs thkJDUbVk1/ibm6XYFEL4zFkm+MC0xeKCUmSTctkPul13VKBjZa6W2iX0saGgEGFHElwCqiT fSiO8mW49ObrMVdX+cBbIP72KN+VyAyGt3IWAt/tA9TuRe4zMAm8zsVXBisE0xm0FrPdsH+N xoMAY2Qe2unFH0Vh3OYquhlCO6DVY7qcLu143QH1JmL7MiXmDnOssxxz+uVKzKIHdfU9zHpB aOeJz8TzYeIs2JaCqFVcRowbGxFlFQ3oOjuqJXyz7fk/1JjBkRg5OwfYZBS+GCCDX6T/ckUr mMfjGd8DJgBzO+OIRRSybdwTu03LcWykVN2y7Mh2FPDtYPVSR5XCrMK3vbRszVk0Dg5Eui1A /n/jNSP5qSipdY2r3FxX
Message-ID: <b9196273-2f81-e570-47cb-c6bf74e8853d@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2018 14:32:04 -0400
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <85342cd2-7a6a-b147-b51f-f3cf41459857@nielstenoever.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Language: en-US
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/hrpc/OZIpIBCS4DivVt_AnYQuCYdEWbQ>
Subject: Re: [hrpc] new title for draft-tenoever-hrpc-political
X-BeenThere: hrpc@irtf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27
Precedence: list
List-Id: "mail@nielstenoever.net" <hrpc.irtf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/options/hrpc>, <mailto:hrpc-request@irtf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/hrpc/>
List-Post: <mailto:hrpc@irtf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:hrpc-request@irtf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/hrpc>, <mailto:hrpc-request@irtf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2018 18:32:10 -0000

Hi Niels,

This was one of many observations, and the least significant.  

Out of curiosity, did anyone argue that protocol standards are not
political?  Even layer 1 protocol standards are enormously political.

--tony



On 18-Aug-18 1:45 PM, Niels ten Oever wrote:
> Hi Tony,
>
> On 08/18/2018 05:57 PM, Tony Rutkowski wrote:
>> The research question "are protocols political?" Seems a trivial one. 
>> Of course they are political.  They always have been and always will
>> be. 
> While this might seem trivial for you, we have had many long discussions
> about this in this RG, and this document seems to document and address
> exactly those discussion and to provide a shorthand when that discussion
> pops up again (it happens quite regularly).
>
> It does not aim to provide a full overview of the history of the
> politics of standards, that is why 'Notes on' is prepended.
>
> This has also been discussed at the session in Montreal.
>
> Best,
>
> Niels
>
>

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email