Re: [idn] Re: dichotomies
Erik van der Poel <erik@vanderpoel.org> Mon, 28 February 2005 00:12 UTC
Received: from psg.com (mailnull@psg.com [147.28.0.62]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA17327 for <idn-archive@lists.ietf.org>; Sun, 27 Feb 2005 19:12:54 -0500 (EST)
Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.44 (FreeBSD)) id 1D5YQj-000I2M-Li for idn-data@psg.com; Mon, 28 Feb 2005 00:06:33 +0000
Received: from [207.115.63.102] (helo=pimout3-ext.prodigy.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.44 (FreeBSD)) id 1D5YQg-000I1x-7B for idn@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 28 Feb 2005 00:06:30 +0000
Received: from [10.1.1.2] (adsl-64-174-147-206.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net [64.174.147.206]) by pimout3-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j1S06JpY413290; Sun, 27 Feb 2005 19:06:23 -0500
Message-ID: <4222607A.80804@vanderpoel.org>
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 16:06:18 -0800
From: Erik van der Poel <erik@vanderpoel.org>
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041206)
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "JFC (Jefsey) Morfin" <jefsey@jefsey.com>
CC: IETF idn working group <idn@ops.ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [idn] Re: dichotomies
References: <D872CCF059514053ECF8A198@scan.jck.com> <421D8411.9030006@vanderpoel.org> <p06210208be4390618c81@[192.168.0.101]> <421E0D0C.2000309@vanderpoel.org> <p06210202be43c3888991@[192.168.0.101]> <E07CE813AD23B2D95DA0C740@scan.jck.com> <421E30F2.1040408@vanderpoel.org> <0E7F74C71945B923C52211F3@scan.jck.com> <421EA0C9.1010500@vanderpoel.org> <00a401c51af3$7863aae0$030aa8c0@DEWELL> <20050226081913.GD14956~@nicemice.net> <42221AB7.9070000@vanderpoel.org> <42221C34.2060505@vanderpoel.org> <6.1.2.0.2.20050227203118.02f22eb0@mail.jefsey.com>
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20050227203118.02f22eb0@mail.jefsey.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on psg.com
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.1
Sender: owner-idn@ops.ietf.org
Precedence: bulk
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
JFC (Jefsey) Morfin wrote: > (I will correct Erik's "xn--s" proposed notation into "xs--" not to > create havoc in punycode) You are right, of course. What was I thinking? Duh. Well, how about "xs--n", to differentiate it from "xn--", and to still have the advantage of a non-delimiter-like character before the rest of the string? > One of the reason why I disagreed with IDNA is it creates a possibly > conflicting left-to-right hierarchy while the DNS hierarchy is > right-to-left. I'm afraid I don't understand this. > This does not simplify understanding, management, security. Why not to > just use DNS zones? I have not yet understood why it was opposed. IMHO > the future of ML.ML names are in the form "name2.name.xx--chicom.com" > where "xx-nn.com" will print as ".com" in Chinese and name, name2 etc. > will all have to use codes from the Chinese Table of ".com". I think your proposal makes some sense. It is similar to my proposal in a way -- recall my .jp example, with the rule that *all* labels would have to use the same ACE prefix or pure ASCII. There isn't really any way to force the TLDs or zone administrators to follow any rules that we might come up with. The best we can do is write down some guidelines that are well thought out. And write them clearly. If registries and zone administrators fail to follow the guidelines, the applications may have to display their domain names differently, to indicate some level of risk. Also, we can't just suddenly switch a TLD from one encoding to another and then expect all the subdomains to follow suit the same night. Instead, we might have a rule specifying that all labels under the first new ACE prefix must use the same prefix. For example, suppose we have a new domain with the new prefix, called "xs--nfoo-abc.jp". Since the 2LD uses the new prefix, any 3LDs, 4LDs and so on would also have to use the new prefix. Does this make sense? Finally, regarding displaying ".com" in Chinese, there is currently no reason to display ".com" in ASCII. This could easily be displayed in Chinese if the application developers were only willing to modify their programs to be more user-friendly. Of course, this brings up all sorts of issues like what to do with copy and paste, educating users about the new kind of display, being able to type ".com" in Chinese in one application while being required to type it in ASCII in another, and so on. There are some issues, but theoretically, you *can* already display ".com" in Chinese. This is not so different from Punycode itself, which you wouldn't normally display as is. You first decode it and then show the Unicode to the user. Erik
- [idn] related work Erik van der Poel
- [idn] Unicode categories Erik van der Poel
- Re: [idn] nameprep2 and the slash homograph issue JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- Re: [idn] nameprep2 and the slash homograph issue Erik van der Poel
- Re: [idn] nameprep2 and the slash homograph issue John C Klensin
- Re: [idn] nameprep2 and the slash homograph issue Adam M. Costello
- Re: [idn] something a little lighter for the week… Doug Ewell
- Re: [idn] stability Erik van der Poel
- Re: [idn] Re: character tables Erik van der Poel
- Re: [idn] Re: process Adam M. Costello
- Re: [idn] punctuation John C Klensin
- Re: [idn] Re: stability JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- Re: [idn] Re: character tables Gervase Markham
- Re: [idn] stringprep: PRI #29 Erik van der Poel
- Re: [idn] nameprep2 and the slash homograph issue Gervase Markham
- Re: [idn] Re: stability Erik van der Poel
- Re: [idn] process Paul Hoffman
- Re: [idn] Re: character tables YAO Jiankang
- Re: [idn] nameprep2 and the slash homograph issue JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- Re: [idn] nameprep2 and the slash homograph issue Adam M. Costello
- Re: [idn] punctuation John C Klensin
- Re: [idn] punctuation tedd
- Re: [idn] Re: character tables JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- Re: [idn] punctuation Erik van der Poel
- Re: [idn] nameprep2 and the slash homograph issue Erik van der Poel
- Re: [idn] nameprep2 and the slash homograph issue Gervase Markham
- Re: [idn] Re: stability Erik van der Poel
- Re: [idn] Re: character tables Adam M. Costello
- [idn] Re: character tables John C Klensin
- Re: [idn] Re: character tables Erik van der Poel
- Re: [idn] Re: stability JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- Re: [idn] Re: character tables Paul Hoffman
- Re: [idn] Re: stability Martin v. Löwis
- Re: [idn] Re: character tables Erik van der Poel
- Re: [idn] Re: stability John C Klensin
- [idn] Re: Unicode categories John C Klensin
- Re: [idn] nameprep2 and the slash homograph issue Erik van der Poel
- [idn] character tables Erik van der Poel
- Re: [idn] Re: character tables John C Klensin
- Re: [idn] Re: stability Mark Davis
- Re: [idn] Re: stringprep: PRI #29 Erik van der Poel
- [idn] stability Erik van der Poel
- Re: [idn] Re: character tables Erik van der Poel
- Re: [idn] Re: dichotomies JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- Re: [idn] process Adam M. Costello
- Re: [idn] Re: character tables William Tan
- Re: [idn] Re: process James Seng
- [idn] Re: stability Simon Josefsson
- Re: [idn] stability Erik van der Poel
- [idn] Re: stability Martin v. Löwis
- Re: [idn] Re: process Jaap Akkerhuis
- Re: [idn] Re: stringprep: PRI #29 Adam M. Costello
- Re: [idn] punctuation tedd
- [idn] Re: dichotomies Erik van der Poel
- Re: [idn] Re: stability Martin v. Löwis
- Re: [idn] punctuation Erik van der Poel
- Re: [idn] nameprep2 and the slash homograph issue Erik van der Poel
- Re: [idn] process JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- [idn] Re: stability Simon Josefsson
- Re: [idn] nameprep2 and the slash homograph issue JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- [idn] Re: stringprep: PRI #29 Erik van der Poel
- Re: [idn] nameprep2 and the slash homograph issue Adam M. Costello
- Re: [idn] process John C Klensin
- Re: [idn] Re: Unicode categories Mark Davis
- Re: [idn] process Doug Ewell
- Re: [idn] Re: stability Adam M. Costello
- Re: [idn] process Erik van der Poel
- [idn] nameprep2 and the slash homograph issue Erik van der Poel
- Re: [idn] punctuation tedd
- [idn] punctuation Erik van der Poel
- Re: [idn] Re: stability James Seng
- [idn] Re: stability Simon Josefsson
- [idn] something a little lighter for the weekend Erik van der Poel
- Re: [idn] nameprep2 and the slash homograph issue Erik van der Poel
- Re: [idn] something a little lighter for the week… Adam M. Costello
- Re: [idn] process Gervase Markham
- [idn] Re: character tables Cary Karp
- [idn] Mozilla? JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- Re: [idn] nameprep2 and the slash homograph issue Erik van der Poel
- Re: [idn] punctuation Erik van der Poel
- [idn] Re: Unicode categories Erik van der Poel
- [idn] Re: stability Simon Josefsson
- Re: [idn] Re: character tables JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- [idn] Re: process Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [idn] process Erik van der Poel
- Re: [idn] punctuation Jaap Akkerhuis
- Re: [idn] Re: character tables Gervase Markham
- Re: [idn] Re: process Jaap Akkerhuis
- Re: [idn] nameprep2 and the slash homograph issue Erik van der Poel
- Re: [idn] Re: process James Seng
- [idn] stringprep mailing list Erik van der Poel
- Re: [idn] Re: dichotomies Erik van der Poel
- Re: [idn] nameprep2 and the slash homograph issue Erik van der Poel
- Re: [idn] Re: stability Erik van der Poel
- Re: [idn] Re: character tables Erik van der Poel
- Re: [idn] Re: stability JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- Re: [idn] Re: process Erik van der Poel
- [idn] Re: stringprep: PRI #29 Simon Josefsson
- Re: [idn] punctuation Erik van der Poel
- Re: [idn] stability Martin v. Löwis
- [idn] stringprep: PRI #29 Erik van der Poel
- Re: [idn] Re: character tables Paul Hoffman
- Re: [idn] nameprep2 and the slash homograph issue Erik van der Poel
- [idn] Re: stability Simon Josefsson
- [idn] process Erik van der Poel
- [idn] stringprep: existing profiles and string pr… Erik van der Poel
- Re: [idn] Re: stability Erik van der Poel
- [idn] dichotomies Erik van der Poel
- Re: [idn] stability JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- [idn] Re: character tables Cary Karp
- Re: [idn] Re: process Erik van der Poel
- [idn] Re: stringprep mailing list Simon Josefsson
- Re: [idn] Re: Unicode categories Martin v. Löwis
- Re: [idn] Re: stability JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- Re: [idn] something a little lighter for the week… John C Klensin
- Re: [idn] something a little lighter for the week… Adam M. Costello
- Re: [idn] Re: dichotomies JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- Re: [idn] Re: stability Erik van der Poel
- Re: [idn] Re: stability Erik van der Poel
- [idn] Re: stringprep: PRI #29 Simon Josefsson
- Re: [idn] stability Erik van der Poel
- [idn] Re: stringprep: PRI #29 Simon Josefsson