Re: [Ietf-languages] Forms for Hokkien variants

[Doug Ewell <[e-mail]>]

I will update these to split the “also known as” clauses into separate Description fields.

This non-major change will push the review period out to Friday, February 23 AoE, if the updates make it to the list by today (Friday).

Question for Winston, upon re-reading: Is there some redundancy in “Taiwanese Hokkien Romanization System for Hokkien languages” that needs to be edited out? This became more apparent once the “a.k.a” section was removed.

--
Doug Ewell, CC, ALB | Lakewood, CO, US | ewellic.org


-----Original Message-----
From: Ietf-languages <[e-mail]> On Behalf Of Michael Everson
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2024 11:24
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: [Ietf-languages] Forms for Hokkien variants

On reflection I recommend that Doug’s emendations be applied to the forms, but a part from that I have no objections.

> On Feb 12, 2024, at 18:23, Doug Ewell <[e-mail]> wrote:
> 
> Thank you for making these updates. The mechanical updates (line length, etc.) were done perfectly, which I know is not always easy. I neglected to mention that the length and spacing restrictions apply only to the record, not the registration form, as long as item 3 of the registration form (Record Requested) matches the proposed record (except for no Added field).
> 
> One small note: Description fields may be used as labels in pickers or other UI, and as such, short is good. I would personally prefer that the “also known as” clause be split out into a second Description field, e.g.:
> 
> Description: Hokkien Vernacular Romanization System
> Description: Pe̍h-ōe-jī orthography/romanization
> 
> However, I’ve probably expressed enough personal preferences on this thread already, so I don’t insist on this change.
> 
> These forms contain no major substantive changes that would extend the review period an additional two weeks, but the minor changes (Description and Comments) do extend it for one week. The review period for these subtags now ends Monday, February 19 AoE. Please review.
> 
> --
> Doug Ewell, CC, ALB | Lakewood, CO, US | ewellic.org
> 
> 
> From: Ietf-languages <[e-mail]> on behalf of 
> Winston Sung <[e-mail]>
> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2024 01:27
> To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
> Subject: [Ietf-languages] Forms for Hokkien variants  Here are 
> proposed records and registration forms for the requested Hokkien variants.
> 
> The registration forms have been updated to include revised Description fields, to include clarifying information in the Comments fields, and to conform to line length requirements (72 UTF-8 bytes) and indentation spacing (e.g., 2 leading spaces for continuation lines) and normal English spacing conventions.
> 
> Due to the different schemes between different romanization systems in different Sinitic languages, the proposed variant subtag "pehoeji" would not for the use of non-Hokkien languages including:
> 
>   -- Vernacular Romanization System "白話字"/Pha̍k-fa-sṳ of Hakka [hak]
> 
>   -- Vernacular Romanization System "白話字"/Bǽh-oe-tu of Hainanese
> 
>   -- Vernacular Romanization System "白話字"/Pe̍h-ūe-jī of Teochew
> 
>   -- Foochow Romanization System "平話字"/Bàng-uâ-cê for Fuzhou Mindong 
> [cdo]
> 
>   -- Foochow Romanization System "平話字"/Báⁿ-uā-ci̍ for Pu–Xian Min 
> [cpx]
> 
>   -- Latin script "羅馬字"/Lô̤-mǎ-cī for Minbei [mnp]
> 
>   These romanization systems would need to propose different subtag (for example, phakfasu, baehoetu, pehueji) if needed.
> 
> ---
> 
> LANGUAGE SUBTAG MODIFICATION
> File-Date: 2024-xx-xx
> %%
> Type: variant
> Subtag: pehoeji
> Description: Hokkien Vernacular Romanization System, also known as
>   Pe̍h-ōe-jī orthography/romanization
> Added: 2024-xx-xx
> Prefix: nan-Latn
> Comments: Modern Hokkien Vernacular Romanization System, evolved from
>   the New Dictionary in the Amoy by John Van Nest Talmage in 1894 %%
> 
> ---
> 
> LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRATION FORM
> 
> 1. Name of requester: SUNG Chien-chang (Winston Sung / SUNG C. C. /
>      Winston Chien-chang SUNG)
> 2. E-mail address of requester: winston21.sung @ gmail.com 3. Record 
> Requested:
> 
>    Type: variant
>    Subtag: pehoeji
>    Description: Hokkien Vernacular Romanization System, also known as
>      Pe̍h-ōe-jī orthography/romanization
>    Prefix: nan-Latn
>    Comments: Modern Hokkien Vernacular Romanization System, evolved from
>      the New Dictionary in the Amoy by John Van Nest Talmage in 1894
> 
> 4. Intended meaning of the subtag:
> 
>    The variety of Hokkien language written forms.
> 
> 5. Reference to published description of the language (book or
>    article):
> 
>    -- Medhurst, Walter Henry (1832) - Dictionary of the Hok-këèn
>       Dialect of the Chinese Language, According to the Reading and
>       Colloquial Idioms - Macau: East India Press -
>       hdl:2027/uc2.ark:/13960/t7pn9319x - OCLC 5314739.
> 
>    -- Doty, Elihu (1853) - Anglo Chinese Manual of the Amoy Dialect -
>       Guangzhou: Samuel Wells Williams - OCLC 20605114.
> 
>    -- MacGowan, John (1869) - A Manual of the Amoy Colloquial - Hong
>       Kong: de Souza & Co. - OCLC 23927767.
> 
>    -- Douglas, Carstairs (1873) - Chinese–English Dictionary of the
>       Vernacular or Spoken Language of Amoy (1st edition) - London:
>       Trübner - hdl:2027/mdp.39015083430507 - OCLC 4820970 - OL
>       24969218M.
> 
>    -- Van Nest Talmage, John (1894) - New Dictionary in the Amoy
>       Dialect - OCLC 41548900.
> 
>    -- Warnshuis, A. Livingston; de Pree, H.P. (1911) - Lessons in the
>       Amoy Vernacular - Xiamen: Chui-keng-tông Press - OCLC 29903392.
> 
>    -- Campbell, William (1913) - A Dictionary of the Amoy Vernacular
>       spoken throughout the prefectures of Chin-chiu, Chiang-chiu and
>       Formosa - Tainan: Taiwan Church Press - OCLC 867068660.
> 
>    -- Barclay, Thomas (1923) - Supplement to Dictionary of the
>       vernacular or spoken language of Amoy - Shanghai: The
>       Commercial press, limited - hdl:2027/mdp.39015051950106.
> 
>    -- Tipson, Ernest (1934) - A Pocket Dictionary of the Amoy
>       Vernacular: English-Chinese - Singapore: Lithographers - OCLC
>       504142973.
> 
> ---
> 
> LANGUAGE SUBTAG MODIFICATION
> File-Date: 2024-xx-xx
> %%
> Type: variant
> Subtag: tailo
> Description: Taiwanese Hokkien Romanization System for Hokkien
>   languages, also known as Tâi-lô orthography/romanization
> Added: 2024-xx-xx
> Prefix: nan-Latn
> Comments: Taiwanese Hokkien Romanization System (Tâi-lô) published in
>   2006 by the Taiwan Ministry of Education %%
> 
> ---
> 
> LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRATION FORM
> 
> 1. Name of requester: SUNG Chien-chang (Winston Sung / SUNG C. C. /
>      Winston Chien-chang SUNG)
> 2. E-mail address of requester: winston21.sung @ gmail.com 3. Record 
> Requested:
> 
>    Type: variant
>    Subtag: tailo
>    Description: Taiwanese Hokkien Romanization System for Hokkien
>      languages, also known as Tâi-lô orthography/romanization
>    Prefix: nan-Latn
>    Comments: Taiwanese Hokkien Romanization System (Tâi-lô) published in
>      2006 by the Taiwan Ministry of Education
> 
> 4. Intended meaning of the subtag:
> 
>    The variety of Hokkien language written forms.
> 
> 5. Reference to published description of the language (book or
>    article):
> 
>    -- Ministry of Education (2006) - "Táiwān Mǐnnányǔ Luómǎzì Pīnyīn
>       Fāng'àn" 臺灣閩南語羅馬字拼音方案 [Taiwanese Hokkien Romanization
>       Solution] - Taiwan: Ministry of Education.
> 
>    -- Ministry of Education (2007) - "Táiwān Mǐnnányǔ Luómǎzì Pīnyīn
>       Fāng'àn Shǐyòng Shǒucè" 臺灣閩南語羅馬字拼音方案使用手冊 [Practical
>       Manual for the Taiwanese Hokkien Romanization System] (1st
>       edition) - Taiwan: Ministry of Education - ISBN
>       978-986-00-7755-1.
> 
>    -- Ministry of Education (2008) - "Táiwān Mǐnnányǔ Luómǎzì Pīnyīn
>       Fāng'àn Shǐyòng Shǒucè" 臺灣閩南語羅馬字拼音方案使用手冊 [Practical
>       Manual for the Taiwanese Hokkien Romanization System] (2nd
>       edition) [first edition 2007] - Taiwan: Ministry of Education -
>       ISBN 978-986-01-6637-8.
> 
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