Re: [Mtgvenue] Last Call: <draft-ietf-mtgvenue-meeting-policy-04.txt> (High level guidance for the meeting policy of the IETF) to Best Current Practice

[Eric Rescorla <[e-mail]>]

On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 7:38 AM, Ted Lemon <[e-mail]> wrote:

> On Apr 20, 2018, at 10:18 AM, Richard Barnes <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
> On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 8:36 PM, Eric Rescorla <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
>> First, if you look at historical demographics, over the past 12 IETFs,
> we have 23% Asia, 26% Europe, and 42% NA). Put another way, the last
> time we had > 1/3 Asian attendance was IETF 94 in Yokohama, and the
> last time we had less than 1/3 NA attendance was IETF 79 in Beijing.
> So, a policy that was designed to match per-continent attendance would
> be more like 2-1-1-*.
>
>
> Correlation does not imply causation.   We could as easily say that the
> reason Beijing had less than 1/3 NA attendance is that it was as difficult
> for a Norteamericano to get to as a North American destination is for
> someone from China.
>

Thanks for making this point. I totally agree that where we have the
meetings influences participation.
This is why I explicitly mentioned Yokohama. Even when we meet in Asia
(which is presumably the
most favorable environment for Asian participation) we still generally get
below 1/3 Asian attendance,
and if we also meet other places, the overall numbers are going to be lower.


Anyway, what I'm pointing to is that relaxing the 1-1-1 policy isn't
> actually supported by the argument ekr made here. And if there's some idea
> that we should do another IETF in Honolulu because it's almost like doing
> one in Asia, please, no.   Tourist destinations suck as IETF destinations.
>   If you want a vacation in Hawaii, that's great, enjoy, but please do it
> on your own time and don't make me go there again.   I would much rather
> fly an extra two hours to Narita and get to go someplace that isn't a
> tourist trap with all the PITA tourist-milking behavior and bad food that
> implies.
>

I don't think that's the argument I'm offering. I personally wasn't much of
a fan of Hawaii either, for many of the reasons you offer (though I note
that they don't seem to be in the selection document!). I'm just saying
that "continent" isn't a very good proxy for travel cost.

-Ekr