Re: Thought experiment [Re: Quality of Directorate reviews]

Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com> Fri, 08 November 2019 04:01 UTC

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Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2019 22:01:08 -0600
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From: Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com>
To: Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>
Cc: ietf@ietf.org
Subject: Re: Thought experiment [Re: Quality of Directorate reviews]
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On Thu, Nov 07, 2019 at 04:36:25PM -0500, Keith Moore wrote:
> On 11/7/19 3:19 PM, Michael Richardson wrote:
> > Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>; wrote:
> >      > This is where the biggest disconnect between 2026 and reality
> >      > is.   If the reality is that industry is going to deploy
> >      > implementations at Proposed Standard or sooner (and as far as
> >      > I can tell, that's been reality for as long as there's been
> >      > an Internet "industry"), it makes sense for IETF to recognize
> >      > that and react accordingly.
> > 
> > You are saying this as if it's a bug.
> > It's not!  It's by design.
> > We deploy at PS in order to find out if there is interoperability.
> 
> My first impression is that this is indeed a bug, a tremendous
> disservice to Internet users.   But I remind myself that automatic
> software update is becoming increasingly common.   [...]
> 
> Also, PS criteria were specifically not designed for deployment; the
> idea was that you need interop testing before deploying.   But if
> interop testing were incorporated earlier in the process (which does
> seem to be more common these days) then the sequencing assumed by 2026
> might be suboptimal.

Progressing from PS->DS->Standard requires reporting on interop.
Publishing a DS does not.

IETF doesn't do anything to facilitate interop testing either.  Ah,
memories of Sun's old Connectathon events.  Maybe IETF could sponsor a
similar event.  It's essentially a lot like a weeklong hackathon, but
where the goal is to have implementors interop test rather implement.

Nico
--