IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: Last Call: <draft-nottingham-safe-hint-05.txt> (The "safe" HTTP Preference) to Proposed Standard

Yoav Nir <ynir.ietf@gmail.com> Sun, 16 November 2014 12:18 UTC

Return-Path: <ynir.ietf@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D6551A7D84 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 04:18:05 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pSpjd6Y6jH9z for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 04:18:03 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-wg0-x22f.google.com (mail-wg0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c00::22f]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2FBB71A1A63 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 04:18:02 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-wg0-f47.google.com with SMTP id n12so545912wgh.6 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 04:18:01 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=YrGKRl6s7A2Hfg778229+3aN5Ag/ECupjfyt2tzgypE=; b=TVGoj77Xy+P6gbU5VZ3j4n11bMAPaoBPHBPal+FsoaTEtsXKvBnzm0xx7TQ4eWt2Vv SH1NbGsKR0t85rfQHFZ+Xok7C/hs/ztIc02upqR0+ajYvJ3riB+xwfAplbKnZB0Hzf0V VVK4IYVAPCpgIqKjk2i0r4DXJtcFop0TpBzXjoFJbbXHq7rN9f01YC0XtuJJioLbqhAr XyYZFCuu8HMwytl0UY7H6c6gKRffXnOrXiL8/rhuzXpDL1QKpGe7atv7IIDyfwwSHVHW Lgo4Kl2UZgUL3S+rKHq3ZGwW3miQte0TnRIJjjhBljoyiA2KrUfZyveFHqpV1I23wdvp vuaw==
X-Received: by 10.180.7.135 with SMTP id j7mr23406242wia.79.1416140281644; Sun, 16 Nov 2014 04:18:01 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [192.168.1.103] (IGLD-84-228-17-54.inter.net.il. [84.228.17.54]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id n3sm5505517wiw.5.2014.11.16.04.17.59 for <multiple recipients> (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 16 Nov 2014 04:18:01 -0800 (PST)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.0 \(1990.1\))
Subject: Re: Last Call: <draft-nottingham-safe-hint-05.txt> (The "safe" HTTP Preference) to Proposed Standard
From: Yoav Nir <ynir.ietf@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <5467A1D1.9030000@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 14:17:58 +0200
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <AC636302-03BE-4DB7-8002-5EE7E9E723A5@gmail.com>
References: <1416052605.74534.YahooMailIosMobile@web28902.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <91E3D29C-7AFC-4BEF-ABDC-021D7D1129CD@gmail.com> <5467A1D1.9030000@gmail.com>
To: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1990.1)
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/MRVSb4e0ybr-nlv7M_-V7NBJJzI
Cc: "ietf@ietf.org" <ietf@ietf.org>, "draft-nottingham-safe-hint@tools.ietf.org" <draft-nottingham-safe-hint@tools.ietf.org>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 12:18:05 -0000

> On Nov 15, 2014, at 8:56 PM, Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> On 16/11/2014 07:34, Yoav Nir wrote:
>> Hi, Lloyd
>> 
>> That is one possible outcome: all decent people have “safe” set.
> 
> Please define "decent" in a culture-independent way.

That’s easy. Lloyd said “if you don’t set it, you will be investigated for terrorist thoughts”. Decent people are those who don’t get investigated for terrorist thoughts. This isn’t a circular definition. Investigator behavior can be observed, and those investigated can be assumed indecent.
> 
>> Another, IMO more likely possible outcome is that servers serve content that is so bland with “safe” set, that nobody sets it, but some people feel like they’ve done something good by setting it for their children.
>> 
>> Imagine Wikipedia with nothing controversial: nothing about abortions, religions, genetics, evolution…
> 
> And that will not happen, so Wikipedia will simply ignore "safe", so browsers
> set to request "safe" will just get raw Wikipedia, so "safe" will be useless
> for parents wishing to censor their children's access to Wikipedia.
> 
> Thanks; this is a good illustration of why this whole thing is a pointless fig leaf.

Glad to help.

BTW: Matthew is correct that Wikipedia currently does not provide a safe option, while Google’s search does. Both Bing and Yahoo also offer a ‘safe’ option, but both of them want a ternary value (off/moderate/strict).

Some content providers go way beyond, providing categories of unsafeness (nudity / sexual themes / violence/gore / strong language / ideologically sensitive — those are the categories from deviantart.com)

Yoav

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email