Re: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-00.txt
Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Tue, 06 July 2021 04:57 UTC
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Subject: Re: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-00.txt
To: Ted Hardie <ted.ietf@gmail.com>, Nico Schottelius <nico.schottelius@ungleich.ch>
Cc: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>, 6MAN WG <ipv6@ietf.org>
References: <162545101341.19246.8566193740265797873@ietfa.amsl.com> <95a7dbe5-e0a3-4676-9dcc-005ff53725e0@gmail.com> <CA+9kkMD3iSgo-KMM5Ed8bVnVCu_G3f2kB6zHKoOx2ta=x8QucA@mail.gmail.com> <CANMZLAbmdWHDRBPpHgy_e4_0-WUVW2gjnbXWwu2pF_xi-S0vWQ@mail.gmail.com> <87a6n13y0j.fsf@ungleich.ch> <CA+9kkMBx4F0FGZasdk11ogyCOwQZecAEkO4JbECDr4osySN-4w@mail.gmail.com>
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <01289d8c-a470-1867-448f-3d616647ba5f@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2021 16:57:20 +1200
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Ted, On 05-Jul-21 22:08, Ted Hardie wrote: > Hi Nico, > > Essentially, the % symbol in a URI is an indicator that what follows is percent encoded; see RFC 3986, section 2.1. Section 2.4 also says: > > Because the percent ("%") character serves as the indicator for > percent-encoded octets, it must be percent-encoded as "%25" for that > octet to be used as data within a URI. > > This proposal treats the % which starts a scope identifier as "data within a URI" and so it percent-encodes the percent symbol. Other approaches, such as a bare percent symbol within the square brackets have been rejected (see the long Mozilla bug thread Brian posted). > > I think that taking this approach is worth trying, but I believe that consistency is needed. Making this the valid form but accepting the bare % in some circumstances seems likely to me result in lack of interoperability. If I can paste when going into browser 1 but not browser 2, the result is confusing for the user. Yes, that is a fairly persuasive argument. Just to play devil's advocate for a moment, once consequence of the % escape is that the user could execute ping6 fe80::80b2:5c79:2266:e431%eth0 but in a browser window would have to type https://[fe80::80b2:5c79:2266:e431%25eth0] so a simple cut-and-paste won't do it. Appendix A of the draft, which is unchanged from RFC6874, summarizes the options considered the previous time round. Regards Brian > > Just my two cents, of course, > > Ted > > On Mon, Jul 5, 2021 at 10:33 AM Nico Schottelius <nico.schottelius@ungleich.ch <mailto:nico.schottelius@ungleich.ch>> wrote: > > > I am bit puzzled about the interface ID discussion. While I understand > that % inside square brackets is treated differently than outside, the > overall complexity still seems to be low, isn't it? > > On encountering "[ + valid IPv6 address" browsers should (must?) > accept an interface identifier of the form of "%string]". > > This covers automatically the integer case as well as the named network > interfaces. Or am I missing something? > > > > Brian Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com <mailto:brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>> writes: > > > Ted, I agree about the complexity. otoh I believe that at least one browser > > used to do this. How about saying that such a mechanism is not forbidden? > > > > Regards, > > Brian Carpenter > > (via tiny screen & keyboard) > > > > On Mon, 5 Jul 2021, 20:06 Ted Hardie, <ted.ietf@gmail.com <mailto:ted.ietf@gmail.com>> wrote: > > > >> Hi Brian, Bob, > >> > >> Your draft says: > >> > >> In the spirit of "be liberal with what you > >> accept", we also suggest that URI parsers accept bare "%" signs when > >> possible (i.e., a "%" not followed by two valid and meaningful > >> hexadecimal characters). This would make it possible for a user to > >> copy and paste a string such as "fe80::a%en1" from the output of a > >> "ping" command and have it work. On the other hand, "%ee1" would > >> need to be manually rewritten to "fe80::a%25ee1" to avoid any risk of > >> misinterpretation. > >> > >> I would prefer the document without this suggestion, as I think the > >> resulting logic for a uri parser is a good bit harder than the " %s are > >> handled differently within IPv6 literals" approach. This requires the > >> parser to treat %s differently within IPv6 literals except when the result > >> would be a "valid and meaningful" pair of hexadecimal characters. If I > >> follow your logic correctly, that would mean not simply checking to be sure > >> that these are hex but also checking to be sure that the resulting > >> characters are within the syntax for the ZoneID production. > >> > >> I think the proposal is much cleaner without this, and I encourage you to > >> reconsider including it. > >> > >> regards, > >> > >> Ted Hardie > >> > >> > >> On Mon, Jul 5, 2021 at 3:41 AM Brian E Carpenter < > >> brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com <mailto:brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>> wrote: > >> > >>> Hi, > >>> > >>> In case people aren't aware, no web browser that we know of supports > >>> RFC6874, i.e. the extension to URI/URL syntax for a link-local > >>> zone index in literal IPv6 addresses. This is annoying in several > >>> use cases. > >>> > >>> This new draft tackles what seems to be the main objection from > >>> the browser community, namely that RFC6874 requires browsers to > >>> remove the zone index before sending the URL out in a standard > >>> HTTP message. That's a coding annoyance and it also breaks HTTP/1.1 > >>> rules for the "Host" header according to RFC7230. > >>> > >>> There's background to this issue at: > >>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=700999 <https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=700999> (still live but > >>> officially closed WONTFIX) and > >>> https://github.com/whatwg/url/issues/392 <https://github.com/whatwg/url/issues/392> > >>> > >>> The new draft proposes to update the RFC accordingly. The changes > >>> are relatively small but significant. There's a diff between the > >>> RFC and this draft at: > >>> > >>> https://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~brian/Diff-rfc6874-draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-00.html <https://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~brian/Diff-rfc6874-draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-00.html> > >>> > >>> Comments welcome. If we want to go ahead with this fix, we will need to > >>> reach out to the URI specialists and the browser community, to be sure > >>> it isn't a waste of time. > >>> > >>> Regards > >>> Brian & Bob > >>> > >>> > >>> -------- Forwarded Message -------- > >>> Subject: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-00.txt > >>> Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2021 19:10:13 -0700 > >>> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org> > >>> Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org> > >>> To: i-d-announce@ietf.org <mailto:i-d-announce@ietf.org> > >>> > >>> > >>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > >>> directories. > >>> > >>> > >>> Title : Representing IPv6 Zone Identifiers in Address > >>> Literals and Uniform Resource Identifiers > >>> Authors : Brian Carpenter > >>> Robert M. Hinden > >>> Filename : draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-00.txt > >>> Pages : 10 > >>> Date : 2021-07-04 > >>> > >>> Abstract: > >>> This document describes how the zone identifier of an IPv6 scoped > >>> address, defined as <zone_id> in the IPv6 Scoped Address Architecture > >>> (RFC 4007), can be represented in a literal IPv6 address and in a > >>> Uniform Resource Identifier that includes such a literal address. It > >>> updates the URI Generic Syntax specification (RFC 3986) accordingly, > >>> and obsoletes RFC 6874. > >>> > >>> > >>> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis/ <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis/> > >>> > >>> There is also an HTML version available at: > >>> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-00.html <https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-00.html> > >>> > >>> > >>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > >>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ <ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> I-D-Announce mailing list > >>> I-D-Announce@ietf.org <mailto:I-D-Announce@ietf.org> > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce> > >>> Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html <http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html> > >>> or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt <ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt> > >>> > >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > >>> ipv6@ietf.org <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org> > >>> Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6> > >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> > >> > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > > ipv6@ietf.org <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org> > > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6> > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > -- > Sustainable and modern Infrastructures by ungleich.ch <http://ungleich.ch> >
- Fwd: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-0… Ted Hardie
- Re: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-0… Brian Carpenter
- Re: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-0… Nico Schottelius
- Re: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-0… Ted Hardie
- Re: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-0… Nick Hilliard
- Re: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-0… Eric Vyncke (evyncke)
- Re: Fwd: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874… Michael Richardson
- Re: Fwd: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-0… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-0… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-0… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-0… Nico Schottelius
- Re: Fwd: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874… Ted Hardie
- Re: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-0… Michael Richardson
- Re: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-0… Andrew Cady
- Re: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-0… Ted Hardie
- Re: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-0… Andrew Cady
- Re: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-0… Andrew Cady
- Re: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-0… Andrew Cady
- Re: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-0… Michael Richardson
- Re: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-0… Jared Mauch
- Re: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-0… Andrew Cady
- Re: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-0… Nico Schottelius
- Re: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-0… Nico Schottelius
- Re: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-0… Michael Richardson
- Re: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-0… Michael Richardson
- Re: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-0… Carsten Bormann
- Re: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-0… Andrew Cady
- Re: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-0… Jared Mauch
- Re: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-0… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Fwd: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-0… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-0… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-0… Ted Hardie
- Re: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-0… Philip Homburg
- Re: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-0… Michael Richardson
- Re: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-0… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-0… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-0… Philip Homburg
- Re: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-0… Michael Richardson
- Re: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-0… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-0… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-0… Michael Richardson
- Re: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-0… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-0… Andrew Cady
- Re: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-0… Michael Richardson
- Re: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-0… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-0… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-0… Nick Hilliard
- Re: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-0… Nick Hilliard
- Re: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-0… Michael Richardson
- Re: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-0… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-6man-rfc6874bis-0… Brian E Carpenter