RE: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt
Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM (Patrice Calhoun) Tue, 16 February 1999 15:54 UTC
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From: Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM
Message-Id: <199902161550.HAA28944@hsmpka.eng.sun.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 07:45:40 -0800
To: "Donovan, Steven R. (MCI)" <Steven.R.Donovan@mci.com>, "'Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM'" <Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM>
Cc: "'confctrl@ISI.EDU'" <confctrl@ISI.EDU>
Reply-To: Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM
Subject: RE: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt
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> > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM [SMTP:Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM] >> Sent: Friday, February 12, 1999 2:46 PM >> To: Donovan, Steven R. (MCI); Jonathan Rosenberg; >> 'Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM' >> Cc: Douglas Clowes; 'confctrl@ISI.EDU'; >> 'iptel@lists.research.bell-labs.com' >> Subject: RE: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt >> >> >> >This is an interesting discussion, however I'm not sure that we are going >> to >> >get answers to the questions that Pat is asking. Only time will tell how >> >services providers make money off of IP based telephony services. >> > >> >However, this is not the purpose of proposing the addition of the session >> >timer to the SIP protocol. The primary purpose is to give the stateful >> SIP >> >Proxy Server a method of determining the validity of the individual >> sessions >> >for which it is keeping state. >> > >> >Are there comments on the mechanisms proposed in the session-timer draft? >> >> Yes, and I appologize for side-tracking the whole thread. Is there anyway >> that we could have shorter INVITEs (perhaps the SIP Server can determine >> the length of a session), and have the SIP Client re-register with the >> server periodically, such as: >> >> SIP Client --------- INVITE ------------> SIP Server >> (some stuff happens here) >> SIP Client < ------- ACK (3 mins) ------- SIP Server >> (2 mins 45 seconds pass, enough to allow for retransmissions) >> SIP Client ---------- FOOBAR -----------> SIP Server >> (where FOOBAR is some message that refreshes the session) >> >> This would allow the SIP Server to have soft-state and time out any >> sessions >> that have not been re-registered (or foobar'ed in the above example). >> > The SIP Session Timer draft allows the server to time out sessions >that have not been extended. The FOOBAR process is a re-INVITE with a new >session-expires header. The only difference is that the initial INVITE has >the clients requesting duration, where your proposal has the model of the >SIP server specifying the initial duration. > > The question of the softness or hardness of the state is up the SIP >server implementation. > > I suppose one optimization to the current draft is to give the SIP >Server the ability to specify an acceptable session time in the situations >where the client either doesn't specify a duration or when the client >specifies an unacceptable (too long) duration. If this is a simple change, it would provide an enormous amount of control over the SIP Server that has to maintain session state information. PatC > >> PatC >> > >> >Steve >> > >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM [SMTP:Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM] >> >> Sent: Friday, February 12, 1999 9:39 AM >> >> To: Jonathan Rosenberg; Pat.Calhoun@Eng.Sun.COM >> >> Cc: Donovan, Steven R. (MCI); >> 'iptel@lists.research.bell-labs.com'; >> >> 'confctrl@ISI.EDU'; Douglas Clowes >> >> Subject: Re: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt >> >> >> >> >> >> >Patrice Calhoun wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> My only concern here is how does the service provider offer a >> service >> >> *and* >> >> >> make at least enough money to recover the capital costs (of course, >> >> certain >> >> >> providers may want to cover many additional costs, which is outside >> the >> >> scope >> >> >> of this discussion :). >> >> > >> >> >It comes back to the same question thats been brought up here on >> >> >numerous occassions - what are you billing for? SIP provides the setup >> >> >services, not the transport services. So, it makes sense for a SIP >> >> >server to charge for what it actually does - set the call up. It >> really >> >> >doesn't make sense, I don't think, to try to bill by the minute for >> the >> >> >SIP part of the call, since its really a transaction service. SIP is >> >> >only one part of the picture, though. There is also transport service >> - >> >> >diffserv prioritization, for example. A service provider can happily >> >> >charge by the minute,bit, packet, or whatever here. >> >> > >> >> >> >> This is perhaps my mis-understanding. I have been working with the TIA >> >> recently >> >> and they have adopted MobileIP/DIAMETER for the next generation >> cellular >> >> data networks. When one considers voice over IP using IP cellular >> phones, >> >> one >> >> quickly wonders how the charging will really work. Yes, it is true that >> >> one >> >> will charge for network access, but conceivably, one could also charge >> for >> >> calls as well. This is especially true if these calls span providers. >> >> >> >> Perhaps I have all of this wrong. I understand that charging for an >> LDAP >> >> query cannot amount to much, and perhaps that is all bundled as part of >> >> the >> >> access charge. Are there any providers on this list that have an idea >> on >> >> how >> >> they will actually bill for these services? >> >> >> >> PatC >> >> >> >> >> >> --------- >> >> This message came from the IETF IPTEL Working Group Mailing List. >>
- draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt Donovan, Steven R. (MCI)
- RE: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt Donovan, Steven R. (MCI)
- RE: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt Patrice Calhoun
- Re: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt Jonathan Rosenberg
- RE: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt John Hearty
- RE: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt Donovan, Steven R. (MCI)
- RE: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt Patrice Calhoun
- Re: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt Douglas Clowes
- Re: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt Patrice Calhoun
- RE: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt Francois Menard Distribution List Management Account
- RE: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt Patrice Calhoun
- Re: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt Douglas Clowes
- RE: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt Douglas Clowes
- Re: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt Jonathan Rosenberg
- Re: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt Henning Schulzrinne
- RE: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt Francois Menard Distribution List Management Account
- Re: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt Jonathan Rosenberg
- Re: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt Vipin Palawat
- Re: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt Patrice Calhoun
- RE: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt Patrice Calhoun
- RE: RE: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt Francois Menard
- Re: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt Jonathan Rosenberg
- RE: RE: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt Sean Olson
- RE: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt Donovan, Steven R. (MCI)
- RE: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt Patrice Calhoun
- RE: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt Dean Willis
- RE: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt Douglas Clowes
- RE: RE: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt Donovan, Steven R. (MCI)
- RE: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt Donovan, Steven R. (MCI)
- RE: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt Donovan, Steven R. (MCI)
- RE: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt Patrice Calhoun
- RE: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt Patrice Calhoun
- RE: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt Dean Willis
- RE: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt Patrice Calhoun
- Re: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt Jonathan Rosenberg
- RE: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt Douglas Clowes
- RE: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt Jerome Privat
- Re: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt Patrice Calhoun
- Re: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt Jonathan Rosenberg
- Re: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt John Hearty
- Re: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt John Hearty
- Re: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt Lewis McCarthy
- Re: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt Jonathan Rosenberg
- RE: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt Dean Willis
- Re: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt Jonathan Rosenberg
- RE: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt Dean Willis
- Re: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt Jonathan Rosenberg
- RE: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt Aishling
- Re: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt Henning Schulzrinne
- RE: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt Dean Willis
- Re: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt Mark Handley
- Re: draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-session-timer-00.txt Henning Schulzrinne
- clients and servers Scott Petrack