Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions
Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> Wed, 24 July 2013 19:47 UTC
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From: Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>
To: "Vijaya Mandava (vimandav)" <vimandav@cisco.com>, Parthasarathi R <partha@parthasarathi.co.in>, 'Emil Ivov' <emcho@jitsi.org>, 'Alan Johnston' <alan.b.johnston@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions
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Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2013 19:47:01 +0000
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Cc: "Cullen Jennings (fluffy)" <fluffy@cisco.com>, 'MMUSIC IETF WG' <mmusic@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions
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Hi, Keep in mind that, no matter if we use PRACK, PRACK-lite, INFO, or simply re-transmission, the SDP can not change from one 180 to another (for the same To tag, that is). Regards, Christer Sent from Windows using TouchDown (www.nitrodesk.com) -----Original Message----- From: Vijaya Mandava (vimandav) [vimandav@cisco.com] To: Parthasarathi R [partha@parthasarathi.co.in] 'Emil Ivov' [emcho@jitsi.org] 'Alan Johnston' [alan.b.johnston@gmail.com] CC: Cullen Jennings (fluffy) [fluffy@cisco.com] 'MMUSIC IETF WG' [mmusic@ietf.org] Subject: Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions 180 with different to-tag would mean call is forked. If uac side do not support call forking, then we cannot use this 180 response to collect trickled candidates. As Emil said, I think INFO is the right way to go here. Thanks, Vijaya On 7/24/13 12:55 PM, "Parthasarathi R" <partha@parthasarathi.co.in> wrote: >Hi Emil, > >As Cullen suggested in case 180 with different to-tag is used by UAS then >INFO package itself is not required right? > >Thanks >Partha > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: mmusic-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mmusic-bounces@ietf.org] On >> Behalf Of Emil Ivov >> Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 3:31 PM >> To: Alan Johnston >> Cc: Cullen Jennings (fluffy); MMUSIC IETF WG >> Subject: Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions >> >> Hey Alan, Cullen, >> >> On 24.07.13, 11:45, Alan Johnston wrote: >> > Agree with Cullen - if there is a reasonable approach (such as >> > retransmitting 180) that avoids PRACK, then we should use this >> approach. >> >> There is one and it comes down to requiring the remote side to send an >> INFO request as soon as it gets it. The INFO request could contain >> trickled candidates (in the case of full trickle) or just >> end-of-candidates (in the case of half-trickle). >> >> This could work and, personally, I have no issue with it. >> >> I believe the suggestion that Christer made was: given how the above >> basically works as a PRACK minus the O/A and given how the O/A in >> PRACKs >> seems to be a deal breaker for many, then we might want to generalize >> the above mechanism so that other specs can also use it. >> >> Cheers, >> Emil >> >> >> > - Alan - >> > >> > >> > On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 11:28 PM, Cullen Jennings (fluffy) >> > <fluffy@cisco.com <mailto:fluffy@cisco.com>> wrote: >> > >> > >> > I prefer the 180 resend approach and all the right things are >> > already looking at them. I have always objected to mandating use >> of >> > PRACK. Obviously I'm fine with things that have PRACK can use it >> but >> > I want some solution for things that don't. >> > >> > One small note, the SDP in the 180 can change as long as the to- >> tag >> > is also changed. >> > >> > >> > >> > On Jul 3, 2013, at 8:13 AM, Emil Ivov <emcho@jitsi.org >> > <mailto:emcho@jitsi.org>> wrote: >> > >> > > Hey all, >> > > >> > > Christer, Enrico and I are preparing the next version of >> Trickle >> > ICE for SIP. Now that discussions on BUNDLE and the plans seem to >> be >> > winding down, we wanted to run a few questions by the working >> group. >> > > >> > > Q1: Making reliable provisional responses and PRACK mandatory. >> > Obviously this would be nice to avoid, so the question is: is >> there >> > a reasonable mechanism to achieve this (and by reasonable, we >> mean >> > something that wouldn't be harder than implementing support for >> PRACK). >> > > >> > > There was some discussion about this back in April and there >> was >> > a suggestion for implementing a 5245-style hack where the >> answerer >> > basically resends the 180 until it knows that it has been >> received. >> > > >> > > 5245 uses connectivity checks for this (i.e. it stops 180 >> > retransmissions when the first connectivity check is received) >> but >> > we don't have that option here since the 180 may contain either >> none >> > or only host candidates so there are strong chances that no >> binding >> > request would be received on them. >> > > >> > > Thomas also suggested a second option which would be to also >> use >> > INFO requests with trickled candidates as an indication that 180 >> was >> > received. This however wouldn't work with half trickle so we are >> > basically back to vanilla ICE for all (non-re) INVITEs. >> > > >> > > Another option would be to mandate an INFO request with >> > "end-of-candidates" in response to the 180, but that would be >> just >> > the same as mandating PRACK support. >> > > >> > > Thomas also suggested that the answerer can start sending >> INFOs >> > right after it sends its answer in the 180 and then it can just >> > resend the 180 if the INFOs result in a 481 response. >> > > >> > > Personally I think this could potentially be made to work, but >> it >> > would imply a level of complexity that considerably exceeds PRACK >> > support. >> > > >> > > Opinions? >> > > >> > > Q2: How do we send INFOs? Are they blocking or do we just send >> > them in parallel? If the latter, then what happens when an INFO >> > fails because it is received out of order? Do we just tell the >> > application to resend the candidates asap? >> > > >> > > This also leads to the following question: >> > > >> > > Q3: What exactly do we send in INFOs? Just the latest batch of >> > freshly learned candidates or all candidates we've learned so >> far? >> > Dale suggested that if we do this cumulatively we wouldn't need >> to >> > worry about the case with the out-of-order INFOs from Q2 since >> the >> > information gets resent anyway. A drawback here would obviously >> be >> > that this adds more complexity for trickle ICE users (WebRTC >> > applications specifically) >> > > >> > > A third option would be to allow both and leave it to the >> > application. >> > > >> > > Comments are most welcome! >> > > >> > > Emil >> > > >> > > -- >> > > https://jitsi.org >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > mmusic mailing list >> > > mmusic@ietf.org <mailto:mmusic@ietf.org> >> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmusic >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > mmusic mailing list >> > mmusic@ietf.org <mailto:mmusic@ietf.org> >> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmusic >> > >> > >> >> -- >> https://jitsi.org >> _______________________________________________ >> mmusic mailing list >> mmusic@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmusic > >_______________________________________________ >mmusic mailing list >mmusic@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmusic _______________________________________________ mmusic mailing list mmusic@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmusic
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions Stach, Thomas
- [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions Emil Ivov
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions Dan Wing
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions Emil Ivov
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions Stach, Thomas
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions Stach, Thomas
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions Emil Ivov
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions Marc Petit-Huguenin
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions Emil Ivov
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions Marc Petit-Huguenin
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions Emil Ivov
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions Marc Petit-Huguenin
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions Stach, Thomas
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions Stach, Thomas
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions Emil Ivov
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions Cullen Jennings (fluffy)
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions Emil Ivov
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions Emil Ivov
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions Emil Ivov
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions Emil Ivov
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions Alan Johnston
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions Emil Ivov
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions Parthasarathi R
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions Vijaya Mandava (vimandav)
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions Cullen Jennings (fluffy)
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions Emil Ivov
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions Parthasarathi R
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions Parthasarathi R
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions Emil Ivov
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions Vijaya Mandava (vimandav)
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions Parthasarathi R
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE for SIP Questions Stach, Thomas
- [MMUSIC] UPDATE vs INFO for SIP Trickle ICE [was … Parthasarathi R