Re: [Pesci-discuss] For whom it may concern..

Brian E Carpenter <brc@zurich.ibm.com> Fri, 18 November 2005 15:51 UTC

Received: from localhost.cnri.reston.va.us ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ed8W9-0003bH-0h; Fri, 18 Nov 2005 10:51:13 -0500
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ed8W4-0003I3-HU for pesci-discuss@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 18 Nov 2005 10:51:10 -0500
Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA25337 for <pesci-discuss@ietf.org>; Fri, 18 Nov 2005 10:50:32 -0500 (EST)
Received: from mtagate1.de.ibm.com ([195.212.29.150]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ed8nv-0004UN-5m for pesci-discuss@ietf.org; Fri, 18 Nov 2005 11:09:36 -0500
Received: from d12nrmr1607.megacenter.de.ibm.com (d12nrmr1607.megacenter.de.ibm.com [9.149.167.49]) by mtagate1.de.ibm.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id jAIFowOL140038 for <pesci-discuss@ietf.org>; Fri, 18 Nov 2005 15:50:58 GMT
Received: from d12av03.megacenter.de.ibm.com (d12av03.megacenter.de.ibm.com [9.149.165.213]) by d12nrmr1607.megacenter.de.ibm.com (8.12.10/NCO/VERS6.7) with ESMTP id jAIFovOT039932 for <pesci-discuss@ietf.org>; Fri, 18 Nov 2005 16:50:57 +0100
Received: from d12av03.megacenter.de.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d12av03.megacenter.de.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.13.3) with ESMTP id jAIFovwD007006 for <pesci-discuss@ietf.org>; Fri, 18 Nov 2005 16:50:57 +0100
Received: from sihl.zurich.ibm.com (sihl.zurich.ibm.com [9.4.16.232]) by d12av03.megacenter.de.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id jAIFou0X006995; Fri, 18 Nov 2005 16:50:56 +0100
Received: from zurich.ibm.com (sig-9-146-220-232.de.ibm.com [9.146.220.232]) by sihl.zurich.ibm.com (AIX4.3/8.9.3p2/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA44518; Fri, 18 Nov 2005 16:50:55 +0100
Message-ID: <437DF85E.8060604@zurich.ibm.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 16:50:54 +0100
From: Brian E Carpenter <brc@zurich.ibm.com>
Organization: IBM
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113
X-Accept-Language: en, fr, de
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Thomas Narten <narten@us.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: [Pesci-discuss] For whom it may concern..
References: <200511141433.jAEEX1Hq010913@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com>
In-Reply-To: <200511141433.jAEEX1Hq010913@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 82c9bddb247d9ba4471160a9a865a5f3
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Cc: pesci-discuss@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: pesci-discuss@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
Precedence: list
List-Id: Process Evolution Study Committee of the IETF discussion <pesci-discuss.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pesci-discuss>, <mailto:pesci-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/pesci-discuss>
List-Post: <mailto:pesci-discuss@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:pesci-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pesci-discuss>, <mailto:pesci-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Sender: pesci-discuss-bounces@ietf.org
Errors-To: pesci-discuss-bounces@ietf.org

Thomas Narten wrote:
>>FWIW, I don't think this helps all that much for the cases when the 
>>IESG is the bottleneck; however, I'm assuming that:
> 
> 
>>  - each AD regularly monitors his/hers I-D tracker pile
> 
> 
> I think this happens less often than would be ideal. A week here a
> week there, pretty soon we're talking about real time...
> 
> 
>>  - each AD regularly checks out the exceptions [0] to figure out if
>>    he/she missed something
> 
> 
> Ditto.  Indeed, if you believe offloading ADs is necessary, this is a
> prime example of where it could be done.
> 
> 
>>[0] http://rtg.ietf.org:8080/Test/tracker_exceptions
> 
> 
>>If these assumptions hold, sending mails won't help.
> 
> 
>>On the other hand, the notifications might be very helpful for cases 
>>where the ball is believed to be at the authors/WG's feet, and AD 
>>would need to find time to ping those folks (and now the system does 
>>that automatically).
> 
> 
> The system does not do that automatically now. Or just barely.
> 
> The email notification facilities in tracker are rudimentary. They
> only happen for a limited number of state changes. They do not send
> followups after an initial note. Only the AD can enter the email
> addresses of those that get pinged (and if an email address goes bad,
> its not obvious that anyone notices). In practice, many documents
> don't have correct email addresses, etc., etc.
> 
> This could be improved (and many people have suggested worthwhile
> improvements), but requires improvements to tracker. And that work is
> pretty much on hold until the secretariat transition to Neustar
> completes...

This is all very much on the IESG radar screen and is why we are
planning an efficiency retreat, as I mentioned in plenary, and why
the PROTO team is looking at necessary tool updates, as Allison
mentioned in plenary.

All this is *procedural* improvement, and not process reform.
What we want to look at here is process reform.

     Brian


_______________________________________________
Pesci-discuss mailing list
Pesci-discuss@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pesci-discuss