Re: [secdir] sec-dir review of draft-ietf-payload-rtp-opus-08
"Ben Campbell" <ben@nostrum.com> Wed, 01 April 2015 22:50 UTC
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From: Ben Campbell <ben@nostrum.com>
To: Jean-Marc Valin <jmvalin@mozilla.com>
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2015 17:50:03 -0500
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Cc: "secdir@ietf.org" <secdir@ietf.org>, "jspittka@gmail.com" <jspittka@gmail.com>, Roni Even <roni.even@mail01.huawei.com>, "iesg@ietf.org" <iesg@ietf.org>, "payload-chairs@tools.ietf.org" <payload-chairs@tools.ietf.org>, "koenvos74@gmail.com" <koenvos74@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [secdir] sec-dir review of draft-ietf-payload-rtp-opus-08
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On 1 Apr 2015, at 16:20, Jean-Marc Valin wrote: > Based on Derek's latest suggestion, the text would become: > > "Since Opus does not provide any confidentiality or integrity > protection, implementations SHOULD use one of the possible RTP > Security methods (See RFC7201, RFC7202)." > > I think that should resolve the issue that was raised. I'm not sure that's the right solution. First, 7201 and 7202 are informational, so I'm not sure we want to insert a normative reference to them here. But more to the point, while I concur with the desire to push for better protections, I don't think a codec payload spec is the right place to do it. It risks having different security requirements for different codecs when used by the same RTP application. I can see that if there are really security difference (e.g. if some codec had built in protection.) I think this is rather the point of 7202, although I notice section 6 of that draft says: "It is also expected that a similar [MTI crypto spec] will be produced for voice-over-IP applications using SIP and RTP." Unfortunately, I don't think that ever happened. So my suggestion would be something more to the effect of: "Opus does not provide any built-in confidentiality or integrity protection. Protection requirements vary between RTP applications. See RFC 7201 and RFC 7202 for a discussion. > > Jean-Marc > > On 01/04/15 05:11 PM, Ben Campbell wrote: >> Hi Roni and Derek, >> >> This thread sort of tailed off in February. Has the discussion been >> resolved? >> >> Thanks! >> >> Ben. >> >> On 19 Feb 2015, at 11:07, Derek Atkins wrote: >> >>> Roni, >>> >>> I'm not an RTP guy. To me "SRTP" is a general class of "Secure >>> RTP" protocols. So let's work on that as my starting point: >>> implementations SHOULD protect their RTP stream. >>> >>> Based on that, how about a re-wording here? Instead of just >>> saying "MAY use SRTP", how about something like "SHOULD use one >>> of the possible RTP Security methods (See RFC7201, RFC7202)"? >>> (Obviously this can be worded better). >>> >>> -derek >>> >>> Roni Even <roni.even@mail01.huawei.com> writes: >>> >>>> Hi, The reason for the may is discussed in RFC7201 and RFC >>>> 7202, it can be a SHOULD and these RFCs exaplain when it is not >>>> required to use SRTP. Maybe add a reference to these RFCs in >>>> the security section when saying talking about good reasons for >>>> not using SRTP >>>> >>>> Roni Even >>>> >>>> ________________________________________ From: Jean-Marc Valin >>>> [jvalin@mozilla.com] on behalf of Jean-Marc Valin >>>> [jmvalin@mozilla.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 10:23 >>>> PM To: Derek Atkins; iesg@ietf.org; secdir@ietf.org Cc: >>>> payload-chairs@tools.ietf.org; koenvos74@gmail.com; >>>> jspittka@gmail.com Subject: Re: sec-dir review of >>>> draft-ietf-payload-rtp-opus-08 >>>> >>>> Hi Derek, >>>> >>>> There was no particular reason for the MAY, the text was merely >>>> copied from other RTP payload RFC. I totally agree with making >>>> it a SHOULD. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Jean-Marc >>>> >>>> On 17/02/15 02:54 PM, Derek Atkins wrote: >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> I have reviewed this document as part of the security >>>>> directorate's ongoing effort to review all IETF documents >>>>> being processed by the IESG. These comments were written >>>>> with the intent of improving security requirements and >>>>> considerations in IETF drafts. Comments not addressed in >>>>> last call may be included in AD reviews during the IESG >>>>> review. Document editors and WG chairs should treat these >>>>> comments just like any other last call comments. >>>>> >>>>> Summary: >>>>> >>>>> Ready to publish with a question: I question why the use of >>>>> SRTP is a MAY and not a SHOULD (as detailed in the Security >>>>> Considerations section). Considering PERPASS I believe this >>>>> should be a SHOULD; someone should have a very good reason >>>>> why they are NOT using SRTP. >>>>> >>>>> Details: >>>>> >>>>> This document defines the Real-time Transport Protocol (RTP) >>>>> payload format for packetization of Opus encoded speech and >>>>> audio data necessary to integrate the codec in the most >>>>> compatible way. Further, it describes media type >>>>> registrations for the RTP payload format. >>>>> >>>>> I have no other comments on this document. >>>>> >>>>> -derek >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ secdir mailing >>>> list secdir@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/secdir wiki: >>>> http://tools.ietf.org/area/sec/trac/wiki/SecDirReview >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- Derek Atkins 617-623-3745 derek@ihtfp.com >>> www.ihtfp.com Computer and Internet Security Consultant
- Re: [secdir] [payload] sec-dir review of draft-ie… Kathleen Moriarty
- Re: [secdir] [payload] sec-dir review of draft-ie… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [secdir] [payload] sec-dir review of draft-ie… Ben Campbell
- Re: [secdir] [payload] sec-dir review of draft-ie… Derek Atkins
- Re: [secdir] sec-dir review of draft-ietf-payload… Ben Campbell
- Re: [secdir] sec-dir review of draft-ietf-payload… Jean-Marc Valin
- Re: [secdir] sec-dir review of draft-ietf-payload… Ben Campbell
- Re: [secdir] sec-dir review of draft-ietf-payload… Derek Atkins
- Re: [secdir] sec-dir review of draft-ietf-payload… Ben Campbell
- Re: [secdir] [payload] sec-dir review of draft-ie… Timothy B. Terriberry
- Re: [secdir] [payload] sec-dir review of draft-ie… Ben Campbell
- Re: [secdir] [payload] sec-dir review of draft-ie… Derek Atkins
- Re: [secdir] [payload] sec-dir review of draft-ie… Ben Campbell
- Re: [secdir] [payload] sec-dir review of draft-ie… Robert Sparks
- Re: [secdir] [payload] sec-dir review of draft-ie… Colin Perkins
- Re: [secdir] [payload] sec-dir review of draft-ie… Roni Even
- Re: [secdir] [payload] sec-dir review of draft-ie… Jean-Marc Valin
- Re: [secdir] [payload] sec-dir review of draft-ie… Roni Even
- Re: [secdir] [payload] sec-dir review of draft-ie… Derek Atkins
- Re: [secdir] [payload] sec-dir review of draft-ie… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [secdir] [payload] sec-dir review of draft-ie… Ben Campbell
- Re: [secdir] [payload] sec-dir review of draft-ie… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [secdir] [payload] sec-dir review of draft-ie… DRAGE, Keith (Keith)
- Re: [secdir] [payload] sec-dir review of draft-ie… Colin Perkins
- Re: [secdir] [payload] sec-dir review of draft-ie… Kathleen Moriarty
- Re: [secdir] [payload] sec-dir review of draft-ie… Colin Perkins
- Re: [secdir] [payload] sec-dir review of draft-ie… Derek Atkins
- Re: [secdir] [payload] sec-dir review of draft-ie… Colin Perkins
- Re: [secdir] [payload] sec-dir review of draft-ie… Derek Atkins
- Re: [secdir] [payload] sec-dir review of draft-ie… Colin Perkins
- Re: [secdir] [payload] sec-dir review of draft-ie… Ben Campbell
- Re: [secdir] [payload] sec-dir review of draft-ie… Colin Perkins
- Re: [secdir] [payload] sec-dir review of draft-ie… Colin Perkins
- Re: [secdir] [payload] sec-dir review of draft-ie… Roni Even
- Re: [secdir] [payload] sec-dir review of draft-ie… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [secdir] [payload] sec-dir review of draft-ie… Derek Atkins
- Re: [secdir] [payload] sec-dir review of draft-ie… Derek Atkins
- Re: [secdir] [payload] sec-dir review of draft-ie… Ben Campbell
- Re: [secdir] [payload] sec-dir review of draft-ie… Ben Campbell
- Re: [secdir] [payload] sec-dir review of draft-ie… Derek Atkins
- Re: [secdir] [payload] sec-dir review of draft-ie… Ben Campbell
- Re: [secdir] [payload] sec-dir review of draft-ie… Ben Campbell
- Re: [secdir] [payload] sec-dir review of draft-ie… Ben Campbell
- Re: [secdir] [payload] sec-dir review of draft-ie… Jean-Marc Valin
- Re: [secdir] [payload] sec-dir review of draft-ie… Kathleen Moriarty
- Re: [secdir] [payload] sec-dir review of draft-ie… Ben Campbell
- Re: [secdir] [payload] sec-dir review of draft-ie… Derek Atkins
- Re: [secdir] [payload] sec-dir review of draft-ie… Colin Perkins
- Re: [secdir] [payload] sec-dir review of draft-ie… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [secdir] [payload] sec-dir review of draft-ie… Magnus Westerlund
- [secdir] sec-dir review of draft-ietf-payload-rtp… Derek Atkins
- Re: [secdir] sec-dir review of draft-ietf-payload… Roni Even
- Re: [secdir] sec-dir review of draft-ietf-payload… Derek Atkins