IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [Terminology] [Gendispatch] WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Documents (term)

Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> Sat, 24 April 2021 20:25 UTC

Return-Path: <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
X-Original-To: terminology@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: terminology@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FD8E3A1DE8; Sat, 24 Apr 2021 13:25:45 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.701
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=cs.tcd.ie
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aGvVlH19aERf; Sat, 24 Apr 2021 13:25:40 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from EUR03-AM5-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr30110.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.3.110]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 390443A1DE7; Sat, 24 Apr 2021 13:25:39 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=YAbL9KurnUEpRuTkz3xBGIqGhZZcXHreP6DzAtQGbDLpWqVuz6a7zP36bz/zzHX4Cxicb29XtJefyRHdk4ME9+2dRNmty1rpm3OInXoJi3AbQ5OPBn4SprZkCSjS+iZjvOydIri7xh583lHUkGHz0xan/dobBsluHgclkEy/NcJQptnxVkMheAmooy/epeM1ul4ajkUb6aKwShUslS4Ox9bh9YepwVXYr76nl7R8vHja6jzKfNKrbWrN95OwQIx1HX0kJEsJBZaPTodCpcJ07eEnRbvlFfMtwoRL0io/xsji+0hughD504g1FOVY5T76LA0Oqgd5DgZzq9Rx/mpvdg==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=1m7SxObaK6IHcy+LELN/akcOWgjfsI+AETOEJzdRuqQ=; b=lbAV312i3ovtEc0y75VyFrGUsYJxzdvuXYayJtGhEPEbhjR4hRPvuCJIMqUuA4OBTdrSpj5SZeuz31XVd1xXCSZ/+oYj9a0pu5DKwLOBr/dkhlFljXH5bUFIq/Jbn1KOu11fV9NHFB91FmkSnvpYy01iG00KG/Mgl+yjkQ0daP3pMXqcPW6aK7nR1fLEfMrO0ICuQOir2RXvI90uq1N8FThqlo864v3CUS15Kvtq17DDrIQ21ErKY7gC7pwUPrYQN+m3HzzEpTcrBF1JcfID8ybyJ3KrW6JHwPaCVh9ldVuN2ldebSSLuAsI+6bV//HefkbAlxIdrVOJHV2aR+kFog==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=cs.tcd.ie; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=cs.tcd.ie; dkim=pass header.d=cs.tcd.ie; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cs.tcd.ie; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=1m7SxObaK6IHcy+LELN/akcOWgjfsI+AETOEJzdRuqQ=; b=XxCeO0o8qve7WGqTfGDOEeix11sMShpyVlAuZQm+HwYxSCfsXQR+cePRZvvLH1Yf6UHVQqgrRLW38Du/K9LXVavncmpdh6dRnKZdy1km87bbso5G4IQRmn4XHnRPO4fYEVwyEtBgoujHgI9HiKbJOiSOK0oWV4+W2N7eFgmOaDETl58ldfmzE60tn+Ahkf4ZfM1IuXIH+M9FgbYRdUUWh1d0u+doFQaOUhowMFfs5C2hg4tig4EVM8tn59/fzmyDW9vwNOeJSWbXTQH2Hbqx17UXZ7NiSQprrVbrInv5+Oi/E1XJ2yHKh7dhIBgMwmBzFbGOXEGwOKlnXTWwzs/1dg==
Authentication-Results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cs.tcd.ie;
Received: from DB7PR02MB5113.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:10:77::15) by DB6PR02MB3221.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:6:19::23) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4042.16; Sat, 24 Apr 2021 20:25:36 +0000
Received: from DB7PR02MB5113.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::2d8d:9193:d3f3:6cc6]) by DB7PR02MB5113.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::2d8d:9193:d3f3:6cc6%5]) with mapi id 15.20.4065.025; Sat, 24 Apr 2021 20:25:36 +0000
To: Lloyd W <lloyd.wood@yahoo.co.uk>
Cc: terminology@ietf.org, gendispatch@ietf.org
References: <219fd089-1d7c-88f9-c3c6-80872fd86319@cs.tcd.ie> <D8D012B9-7036-4543-97B6-1343B532F31A@yahoo.co.uk>
From: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
Message-ID: <76310f57-0637-c5e0-c715-ee25785c7f11@cs.tcd.ie>
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2021 21:25:34 +0100
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.7.1
In-Reply-To: <D8D012B9-7036-4543-97B6-1343B532F31A@yahoo.co.uk>
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha256"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ZDQ7zOZXsbYx1AFb0KUS2sN23CU1N4VZi"
X-Originating-IP: [2001:bb6:5e5e:b458:c1e8:917c:6299:927]
X-ClientProxiedBy: DB9PR01CA0013.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com (2603:10a6:10:1d8::18) To DB7PR02MB5113.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:10:77::15)
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1
Received: from [IPv6:2001:bb6:5e5e:b458:c1e8:917c:6299:927] (2001:bb6:5e5e:b458:c1e8:917c:6299:927) by DB9PR01CA0013.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com (2603:10a6:10:1d8::18) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4065.20 via Frontend Transport; Sat, 24 Apr 2021 20:25:35 +0000
X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email
X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 4e20bf5e-6092-4ea4-7eeb-08d9075f1e22
X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: DB6PR02MB3221:
X-MS-Exchange-SharedMailbox-RoutingAgent-Processed: True
X-Microsoft-Antispam-PRVS: <DB6PR02MB3221E2B083A4FD11DCDE2127A8449@DB6PR02MB3221.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com>
X-TCD-Routed-via-EOP: Routed via EOP
X-TCD-ROUTED: Passed-Transport-Routing-Rules
X-MS-Oob-TLC-OOBClassifiers: OLM:3044;
X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck: 1
X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0;
X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: 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
X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:DB7PR02MB5113.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(4636009)(376002)(346002)(366004)(396003)(39860400002)(136003)(8936002)(44832011)(53546011)(31686004)(52116002)(83380400001)(5660300002)(4326008)(186003)(38100700002)(2616005)(66476007)(6916009)(66556008)(2906002)(8676002)(31696002)(316002)(786003)(66616009)(478600001)(6486002)(16526019)(86362001)(66946007)(33964004)(21480400003)(36756003)(235185007)(43740500002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102;
X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData: 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
X-OriginatorOrg: cs.tcd.ie
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 4e20bf5e-6092-4ea4-7eeb-08d9075f1e22
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: DB7PR02MB5113.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Apr 2021 20:25:36.0739 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: d595be8d-b306-45f4-8064-9e5b82fbe52b
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-MailboxType: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-UserPrincipalName: K/HdCbLLewvCWZ3eExUGFBxv3qJUZD/0EwJwQRMJDlbM72fGpU75pueWXavSegW1
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB6PR02MB3221
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/terminology/cOx8s7ZvvIdPgANJ3OG5e6AoDAo>
Subject: Re: [Terminology] [Gendispatch] WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Documents (term)
X-BeenThere: terminology@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Effective Terminology in IETF Documents <terminology.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/terminology>, <mailto:terminology-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/terminology/>
List-Post: <mailto:terminology@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:terminology-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/terminology>, <mailto:terminology-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2021 20:25:46 -0000


On 24/04/2021 09:31, Lloyd W wrote:
> Stephen
> 
> how can you support this if you think a list of bad terms is a
> mistake, which means that you don't support this?

No that's not correct. The list is only one aspect of the
overall charter.

I'm fine with a WG crafting an informational RFC that gives
us better guidance as to how to write better drafts, and am
ok that that includes a few examples of terms that are now
considered less good.

I think a curated list of bad terms is a mistake because it
threatens to prolong and occasionally re-ignite controversies
around terminology. Secondly, no matter what opinion one
holds on any specific term, the risk exists that the list's
then curators have the opposite opinion at some future date.
So, I think it's a mistake to consider such a list from any
starting position.

Cheers,
S.

> 
> Can you actually clearly articulate your position? >
> thanks,
> 
> Lloyd Wood lloyd.wood@yahoo.co.uk
> 
> I support the war in general, just not any of the actions that the
> war requires.
> 
>> On 24 Apr 2021, at 01:03, Stephen Farrell
>> <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> wrote:
>> 
>>  Hiya,
>> 
>> In general I support this.
>> 
>> I think it's a mistake to craft or point at a curated list of bad
>> terms as I've said before but I seem to be in the rough on that,
>> which is ok.
>

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email