Re: [Terminology] WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Documents (term)
reynolds@cogitage.pairsite.com Thu, 29 April 2021 21:34 UTC
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Subject: Re: [Terminology] WG Review: Effective Terminology in IETF Documents (term)
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Maybe because of my different background (which did include learning networking by reading RFCs, though), I would think IETF usual practices could eliminate a lot of uncertainty and maybe emotional involvement. Below are some paragraphs in which I try to show what I mean. from the draft charter, v.07: "The TERM working group is therefore chartered to produce an Informational RFC containing guidance to IETF participants on the use of effective terminology that also minimizes exclusionary effects. ... ... guidance to IETF participants on the use of effective terminology.... The RFC will express general principles for assessing when language is effective. ... The output of this WG will provide guidance to IETF participants and will not restrict the type or content of contributions that can be made to the IETF standards process." Looking at the situation described in ITEF's draft charter from the point of view of Information Theory, and simplifying WLOG to 1-way communication between IETF as Sender and users of RFCs as Receivers, the issue at hand seems to be at its base a mismatch between Sender encodings and Receiver encodings, whereas a foundational idea in Info Theory is that Sender and Receiver must share the same encodings. RFCs are encoded using words in bare plain text, but some users are reporting that some words in RFCs messages introduce imprecisions which limit successful communication. There are meaning tokens which have become so loaded with extra, non-computing meaning that for some users they are equivocal, and what is encoded in a word may not be the same for all participants. From this channel efficiency viewpoint, the requests for changes seems like just another instance of usual IETF work to improve clarity of language in a multi-lingual world. Focusing on just such cases of submitted complaints, it seems straightforward to get good data by assembling fully documented suggested improvements--ie some standard format list of them--from all interested parties, then review and decide what encoding tokens are to be rectified. Which is what IETF is starting on, as far as I can see. The banality and democracy of the list format should even help maintain objectivity. And the content of any archive about this issue would offer the ease of access of the list form. The assignment emphasized by IETF, of improving effectiveness of language and terminology, is a different matter. Previous posters have noted that may not be feasible, and I with a strong background in the fields which mashed together give sociolinguistics, would agree. The problem is that "principles for assessing when language is effective" are elusive. "Effective" is tricky to define in operational terms, and may end up seeming to be vacuous or full of special cases. It is not like eg the definition of the effectiveness of an attempt to make a sports "goal". That can be based on 100% sampling of attempts; the achieving of a goal, and the responsibility for achieving it, is obvious to viewers; and there are no carry-over effects like there are in language use, ie an attempt to achieve one goal instance now is not affected by earlier attempt instances. However, I can suggest the use of a tool which has a long history of acceptance as contributing to effective language use, the famous (in literary circles) Strunk & White, _The Elements of Style_, a small, efficient book. My copy at hand is 2000, 4th Edition. So the expression in a RFC of "general principles for assessing when language is effective" would consist in saying that writings should cohere with the rules in Strunk & White. If they cohere, they can be treated as ceteris paribus assumed to be effective. And internally, the effectiveness of what will be the TERM RFC, might be measured crudely with usual frequency and density measures. Change over time of number of complaints of this sort, proportions over time of these complaints compared to all complaints for all RFCs, etc. But these are far from direct measures of language in general.
- [Terminology] WG Review: Effective Terminology in… Lars Eggert
- Re: [Terminology] WG Review: Effective Terminolog… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Terminology] [Gendispatch] WG Review: Effect… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Terminology] WG Review: Effective Terminolog… Keith Moore
- Re: [Terminology] WG Review: Effective Terminolog… Maisonneuve, Julien (Nokia - FR/Paris-Saclay)
- Re: [Terminology] [Gendispatch] WG Review: Effect… Andrew Campling
- Re: [Terminology] [Gendispatch] WG Review: Effect… Jim Fenton
- Re: [Terminology] WG Review: Effective Terminolog… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Terminology] WG Review: Effective Terminolog… Andrew Campling
- Re: [Terminology] [Gendispatch] WG Review: Effect… Lloyd W
- Re: [Terminology] [Gendispatch] WG Review: Effect… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Terminology] [Gendispatch] WG Review: Effect… reynolds
- Re: [Terminology] [Gendispatch] WG Review: Effect… Lloyd W
- Re: [Terminology] [Gendispatch] WG Review: Effect… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Terminology] [Gendispatch] WG Review: Effect… Lloyd W
- Re: [Terminology] [Gendispatch] WG Review: Effect… Pete Resnick
- Re: [Terminology] [Gendispatch] WG Review: Effect… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Terminology] WG Review: Effective Terminolog… Mallory Knodel
- Re: [Terminology] WG Review: Effective Terminolog… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Terminology] WG Review: Effective Terminolog… Keith Moore
- Re: [Terminology] WG Review: Effective Terminolog… Mallory Knodel
- Re: [Terminology] [Gendispatch] WG Review: Effect… Niels ten Oever
- Re: [Terminology] [Gendispatch] WG Review: Effect… Mallory Knodel
- Re: [Terminology] [Gendispatch] WG Review: Effect… Salz, Rich
- Re: [Terminology] [Gendispatch] WG Review: Effect… Niels ten Oever
- Re: [Terminology] WG Review: Effective Terminolog… Bron Gondwana
- Re: [Terminology] WG Review: Effective Terminolog… Jim Fenton
- Re: [Terminology] [Gendispatch] WG Review: Effect… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Terminology] [Gendispatch] WG Review: Effect… Lloyd W
- Re: [Terminology] [Gendispatch] WG Review: Effect… Jay Daley
- Re: [Terminology] [Gendispatch] WG Review: Effect… Bron Gondwana
- Re: [Terminology] [Gendispatch] WG Review: Effect… Jay Daley
- Re: [Terminology] [Gendispatch] WG Review: Effect… Lloyd W
- Re: [Terminology] WG Review: Effective Terminolog… Mallory Knodel
- Re: [Terminology] [Gendispatch] WG Review: Effect… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Terminology] WG Review: Effective Terminolog… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [Terminology] [Gendispatch] WG Review: Effect… Vittorio Bertola
- Re: [Terminology] WG Review: Effective Terminolog… Keith Moore
- Re: [Terminology] WG Review: Effective Terminolog… Keith Moore
- Re: [Terminology] [Gendispatch] WG Review: Effect… Keith Moore
- Re: [Terminology] [Gendispatch] WG Review: Effect… Keith Moore
- Re: [Terminology] [Gendispatch] WG Review: Effect… Salz, Rich
- Re: [Terminology] [Gendispatch] WG Review: Effect… Salz, Rich
- Re: [Terminology] [Gendispatch] WG Review: Effect… Keith Moore
- Re: [Terminology] WG Review: Effective Terminolog… reynolds
- Re: [Terminology] WG Review: Effective Terminolog… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Terminology] WG Review: Effective Terminolog… Jim Fenton
- Re: [Terminology] [Gendispatch] WG Review: Effect… Keith Moore
- Re: [Terminology] WG Review: Effective Terminolog… Dan Harkins
- Re: [Terminology] WG Review: Effective Terminolog… Christian Huitema
- Re: [Terminology] [Gendispatch] WG Review: Effect… Keith Moore
- Re: [Terminology] [Gendispatch] WG Review: Effect… Niels ten Oever
- Re: [Terminology] [Gendispatch] WG Review: Effect… Keith Moore
- Re: [Terminology] [Gendispatch] WG Review: Effect… S Moonesamy
- Re: [Terminology] [Gendispatch] WG Review: Effect… Salz, Rich
- Re: [Terminology] [Gendispatch] WG Review: Effect… Keith Moore
- Re: [Terminology] [Gendispatch] WG Review: Effect… Salz, Rich