IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [Add] [EXTERNAL] Re: draft-grover-add-policy-detection-00

Vittorio Bertola <vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com> Wed, 17 July 2019 08:06 UTC

Return-Path: <vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com>
X-Original-To: add@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: add@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A1701201D0 for <add@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 01:06:47 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.198
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.198 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=open-xchange.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9wltsfZRqR4d for <add@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 01:06:45 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mx4.open-xchange.com (alcatraz.open-xchange.com [87.191.39.187]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 37E9C12009C for <add@ietf.org>; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 01:06:44 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from open-xchange.com (imap.open-xchange.com [10.20.30.10]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx4.open-xchange.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 99B796A3B5; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 10:06:42 +0200 (CEST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=open-xchange.com; s=201705; t=1563350802; bh=XBLSnvgAuq9QaXdf///1B8LMXTXk+rwd9K+Vwnum7tI=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From; b=eLjAXx01etmzy/CYYgPIgGXHIHeVieTKrRtL+9hrW4Oyz+nG2BYz2qR7kmI8aT0Gv rO3evErf8lKaKPJ+oDNpz0IhClVRELmYRcl7P6hP0neCzVM+fb8ZkdOvecSgeHbJ4i YEmnPdVju/a/kF9R/w652mOnTnFuP3WobRLfNs37qQjmMvdio+onvMzST09YJFwPlp 6QDJ4ZDfh05t+f2sCPsfa7qlvkVW8XUpVpttmfLwNGPzOyZrLIPopPqHNtzHU5Jopd mERhftYInhSGiK5bmvQPWXqJyVnZxMKcMNbbuQbS6depjfH9nSizngJpIh+r2v4cyJ TLWzxcuzUSNFQ==
Received: from appsuite-gw1.open-xchange.com (appsuite-gw1.open-xchange.com [10.20.28.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by open-xchange.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8D8333C036E; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 10:06:42 +0200 (CEST)
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 10:06:42 +0200
From: Vittorio Bertola <vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com>
Reply-To: Vittorio Bertola <vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com>
To: Rob Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com>
Cc: add@ietf.org
Message-ID: <1513817825.9983.1563350802523@appsuite-gw1.open-xchange.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAChr6Syf_=3__jcv6D7b1JokGFYpFuy9y9419V0nCAx=MMh24A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAChr6SwEUz9MrdRA0bnv9f-oNi0oUHkfRKjd9-o6jwhuckLXdw@mail.gmail.com> <CAFWeb9LNdT=EYVKTsYDxcBCQKoQFNShKotYtWujt4U9GA-V1mg@mail.gmail.com> <CAFWeb9+eWKSKY9O2JLn9-0+Zq7hrD48F-y+Y4T-iRaaF0vtdOA@mail.gmail.com> <A45F4F74-D6C1-435A-A52F-C2DEA82E2999@sky.uk> <CAFWeb9JVBj+Yehup5q4v9X-7XDY+02frd-04AQGL2HoSLON2qA@mail.gmail.com> <CABcZeBMY9q9vKGse1svzbvXF_dSHA+9q06j4ugDVCZP9VT1koQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAChr6Sz5Rfz=UxOYuPguSvVK2HCX2ZoA1-FytW7+EOUxN8y46Q@mail.gmail.com> <CABcZeBNB7ASu2U3ZMBZ+OOxEhbSnhDXwFN3Lsex1uzVSDv3R=Q@mail.gmail.com> <CAChr6SwEwRRX7BA6ZCeBuC93hFxbfi3d7G_3G3VA7Lm09yuneg@mail.gmail.com> <CABcZeBNa97Vb6Fw-fMhoZnMezGtm3nJODENN4=XXsz7GWxf2Cg@mail.gmail.com> <CAChr6Sxm__NroZ92v4HL_6iCa62fwYgNw9r8ZDAxCdzVwNoDGw@mail.gmail.com> <20190716190219.5DEF4156CDF0@fafnir.remote.dragon.net> <CAChr6SzSkVU5xbh0sZCCEgd7BUdr-dMorNq=5iMkWp66k8PVow@mail.gmail.com> <15205609-8203-4C6F-9DE7-14D492873C51@rfc1035.com> <CAChr6Syf_=3__jcv6D7b1JokGFYpFuy9y9419V0nCAx=MMh24A@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
Importance: Medium
X-Mailer: Open-Xchange Mailer v7.10.2-Rev8
X-Originating-Client: open-xchange-appsuite
Autocrypt: addr=vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQENBFhFR+UBCACfoywFKBRfzasiiR9/6dwY36eLePXcdScumDMR8qoXvRS55QYDjp5bs+yMq41qWV9 xp/cqryY9jnvHbeF3TsE5yEazpD1dleRbkpElUBpPwXqkrSP8uXO9KkS9KoX6gdml6M4L+F82WpqYC1 uTzOE6HPmhmQ4cGSgoia2jolxAhRpzoYN99/BwpvoZeTSLP5K6yPlMPYkMev/uZlAkMMhelli9IN6yA yxcC0AeHSnOAcNKUr13yXyMlTyi1cdMJ4sk88zIbefxwg3PAtYjkz3wgvP96cNVwAgSt4+j/ZuVaENP pgVuM512m051j9SlspWDHtzrci5pBKKFsibnTelrABEBAAG0NUJlcnRvbGEsIFZpdHRvcmlvIDx2aXR 0b3Jpby5iZXJ0b2xhQG9wZW4teGNoYW5nZS5jb20+iQFABBMBAgAqBAsJCAcGFQoJCAsCBRYCAwEAAp 4BAhsDBYkSzAMABQMAAAAABYJYRUflAAoJEIU2cHmzj8qNaG0H/ROY+suCP86hoN+9RIV66Ej8b3sb8 UgwFJOJMupZfeb9yTIJwE4VQT5lTt146CcJJ5jvxD6FZn1Htw9y4/45pPAF7xLE066jg3OqRvzeWRZ3 IDUfJJIiM5YGk1xWxDqppSwhnKcMOuI72iioWxX0nGQrWxpnWJsjt08IEEwuYucDkul1PHsrLJbTd58 fiMKLVwag+IE1SPHOwkPF6arZQZIfB5ThtOZV+36Jn8Hok9XfeXWBVyPkiWCQYVX39QsIbr0JNR9kQy 4g2ZFexOcTe8Jo12jPRL7V8OqStdDes3cje9lWFLnX05nrfLuE0l0JKWEg8akN+McFXc+oV68h7nu5A Q0EWEVH5QEIAIDKanNBe1uRfk8AjLirflZO291VNkOAeUu+dIhecGnZeQW6htlDinlYOnXhtsY1mK9W PUu+xshDq7lXn2G0LxldYwyJYZaJtDgIKqVqwxfA34Lj27oqPuXwcvGhdCgt0SW/YcalRdAi0/AzUCu 5GSaj2kaGUSnBYYUP4szGJXjaK2psP5toQSCtx2pfSXQ6MaqPK9Zzy+D5xc6VWQRp/iRImodAcPf8fg JJvRyJ8Jla3lKWyvBBzJDg6MOf6Fts78bJSt23X0uPp93g7GgbYkuRMnFI4RGoTVkxjD/HBEJ0CNg22 hoHJondhmKnZVrHEluFuSnW0wBEIYomcPSPB+cAEQEAAYkBMQQYAQIAGwUCWEVH5QIbDAQLCQgHBhUK CQgLAgUJEswDAAAKCRCFNnB5s4/KjdO8B/wNpvWtOpLdotR/Xh4fu08Fd63nnNfbIGIETWsVi0Sbr8i E5duuGaaWIcMmUvgKe/BM0Fpj9X01Zjm90uoPrlVVuQWrf+vFlbalUYVZr51gl5UyUFHk+iAZCAA0WB rsmACKvuV1P7GuiX3UV9b59T9taYJxN3dNFuftrEuvsqHimFtlekUjUwoCekTJdncFusBhwz2OrKhHr WWrEsXkfh0+pURWYAlKlTxvXuI7gAfHEQM+6OnrWvXYtlhd0M1sBPnCjbyG63Qws7Rek9bEWKtH6dA6 dmT2FQT+g1S9Mdf0WkPTQNX0x24dm8IoHuD3KYwX7Svx43Xa17aZnXqUjtj1
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/add/6Va-7rs-vfve0aSvxorciJ-0gh8>
Subject: Re: [Add] [EXTERNAL] Re: draft-grover-add-policy-detection-00
X-BeenThere: add@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Applications Doing DNS <add.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/add>, <mailto:add-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/add/>
List-Post: <mailto:add@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:add-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/add>, <mailto:add-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 08:06:47 -0000


Il 17 luglio 2019 07:01 Rob Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com> ha scritto:


On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 12:30 PM Jim Reid < jim@rfc1035.com> wrote:

Whether or not these tools/services work well is another issue entirely. And IMO not something to discuss at the IETF.

Hi Jim,

I thought about this email a lot today.

I think the problem with its sentiment is that whether or not tools/services work on the Internet might be fairly called "engineering", and this is the Internet Engineering Task Force, right?
But if you have tools that work well enough that millions of people rely on them and that they are encouraged or even mandated in many countries, and you decide to develop and implement technologies to prevent them from working, this (the decision, not the development and implementation) might fairly be called "policy", and this is not the Internet Policy Task Force.

This is why, when you move outside of this organization to other circles - policy, political, business and security circles that do not belong here -, there is a sentiment that ranges from surprise to outrage when they discover that the IETF is implementing a policy decision of significant global impact in which no one but the IETF was involved.

So it would be good if we could just have a productive discussion to advance the user's privacy and security for all use cases while keeping everyone's needs together, rather than repeatedly discussing whether the needs of the others are legitimate.

-- 

Vittorio Bertola | Head of Policy & Innovation, Open-Xchange
vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com 
Office @ Via Treviso 12, 10144 Torino, Italy

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email