Re: [Asrg] Re: RMX Records

On Tue, Mar 04, 2003 at 10:28:39AM +0100, Hadmut Danisch wrote:
> Adam Back wrote:
> > Also I'm not sure as another poster noted how much it even helps:
> > disposable ISP free accounts (AOL CD syndrome) are a major source,
> > with RMX the problem is not even improved.
> 
> I don't see the problem. If anyone uses such a CD, she is still 
> limited to the aol domain and can't send e.g. as @hotmail.com or
> @danisch.de. 

The problem is forcing everyone to jump through the hoop of having
valid RMX records does not stop spam.  

It just stops people sending mail from addresses without RMX records
delegating that they are allowed to (which incidentally breaks a lot
of existing functionality).

So already there is commonly some Received header giving the
information about who sent the mail.  That From headers may be
slightly harder to forge under RMX doesn't change the problem.

The problem is that spammers systematically abuse ISP AUPs.  The ISPs
already have AUPs, they already routinely correlate spam attacks to
given users and terminate accounts.  RMX does _nothing_ about spam
other than offer another route to tracing the ISP.  It also has the
unrelated and tangential effect of making certain types of forgeries
harder / breaking some times of existing functionality (where the
"forgery" is the functionality -- making the From address your desired
Reply-To: all mail I've sent for the last 5 years has been of this
form).

We know from long experience that laws, and after the fact enforcement
of AUPs don't solve the problem.  That is the status quo.

> Second is, under german - and I believe under european - law 
> ISPs are required to state their customers identity. I guess
> the same will come in the USA after 9/11. It will become
> more and more difficult to have anonymous access to the internet.

And this is a bad thing for end-users.  

Your approach to slowing spam is to punish end-users by stripping them
of privacy, and the convenience of trial-offer CDs from ISPs.

> Third, when a thing like RMX comes to fly, anonymous customers will
> have to find a RMX covering the AOL addresses in order to send
> spam. There will be very few domains doing so, maybe just
> aol.com. If AOL goes on with supporting spam, they will be
> blacklisted (which is effective in this case). They will have to
> solve the problem.

So how will anyonymous users who want anonymity for privacy send mail
in this world.

Adam
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