Re: [Banana] Charter
"Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)" <sgundave@cisco.com> Mon, 25 September 2017 17:57 UTC
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From: "Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)" <sgundave@cisco.com>
To: Margaret Cullen <margaretw42@gmail.com>
CC: "banana@ietf.org" <banana@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Banana] Charter
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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2017 17:57:37 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Banana] Charter
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Hi Margaret, Ok. But, the IETF 97 discussions have closed with no agreement on the problem statement. Please point me to a document where a CPE uses multiple Wi-Fi interfaces as WAN links, who is the provider, deployment model and the use-case driving that link aggregation. Also, the use case around the idea of using a satellite link and DSL link (with such asymmetric link characteristics) for link aggregation and the idea of per-packet load balancing. Some pointers will help… Sri From: Margaret Cullen <margaretw42@gmail.com<mailto:margaretw42@gmail.com>> Date: Monday, September 25, 2017 at 10:43 AM To: Microsoft Office User <sgundave@cisco.com<mailto:sgundave@cisco.com>> Cc: "banana@ietf.org<mailto:banana@ietf.org>" <banana@ietf.org<mailto:banana@ietf.org>> Subject: Re: [Banana] Charter Hi Sri, The problem statement you are quoting was never presented in a BOF, and there is no expectation that it will be a work item of the currently proposed WG. It is an old, expired I-D, from before the group had reached an understanding of our current scope and focus Even at the time it was posted, feedback indicate that it was too DSL/LTE & BBF-specific. The “BANANA Scope and Problem Description” presented at the Informational BOF at IETF-97 can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/97/materials/slides-97-banana-banana-scope-and-proble-description/<https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/97/materials/slides-97-banana-banana-scope-and-problem-description/> That presentation represents where we were in discussing/refining our problem statement and scope as of November of 2016. As you can see, it is not DSL/LTE-specific, at all. Our thinking about the problem was refined considerably on the BANANA mailing list after IETF-97, and at this point the current problem statement and scope for the proposed WG can be found in the first few paragraphs of the charter text. Margaret On Sep 25, 2017, at 12:43 PM, Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) <sgundave@cisco.com<mailto:sgundave@cisco.com>> wrote: Hi Nic, I do not agree here. Yes, DLS+LTE is a very valid use case with a lot of momentum, but there are other use cases which were also mentioned during the BoF. E.g. Bundling of SAT + DSL (and in fact there are offerings, providing Internet over Satellite for home users as well with - very small bandwidth DSL - as a backup). Why do you assume that WiFi means WAN? Most of the home routers today provide WLAN and there are scenarios where the WLAN of different customers is being aggregated. Ok. Lets quickly review the PS document that was used for this discussions, draft-zhang-banana-problem-statement-03.txt ("Problem Statement: Bandwidth Aggregation for Internet Access²) " 1. Introduction Use cases of BANdwidth Aggregation for interNet Access (BANANA, a.k.a., Hybrid Access) are described in the Technical Report [TR-348] published by Broadband Forum: by providing Hybrid Access, Service ³ Your use-cases are what BBF has defined per your PS. I assumed its clearly about DSL + LTE aggregation, that is driving this work. Now, if the argument is we need DSL + SATRAN, please point me to one RG that has support for DSL and Satellite, or a deployment where an RG uses Wi-Fi as a WAN link. Sure, I also saw the comment from Margaret that "one person on this thread mentioned wanted to aggregate two WiFi links, another person has talked about aggregating VPN links². I wonder, if we have we made it so easy that we can create IETG WG¹s so easily, based on such individual wishes, with no details on how and where its used. Its well understood that link-aggregation has value and nothing new there. But, please present very specific use-cases beyond BBF use-case. Regards Sri On 9/25/17, 1:42 AM, "N.Leymann@telekom.de<mailto:N.Leymann@telekom.de>" <N.Leymann@telekom.de<mailto:N.Leymann@telekom.de>> wrote: Hi Sri, I do not agree here. Yes, DLS+LTE is a very valid use case with a lot of momentum, but there are other use cases which were also mentioned during the BoF. E.g. Bundling of SAT + DSL (and in fact there are offerings, providing Internet over Satellite for home users as well with - very small bandwidth DSL - as a backup). Why do you assume that WiFi means WAN? Most of the home routers today provide WLAN and there are scenarios where the WLAN of different customers is being aggregated. I think we should not rule out any technology for the BANANA work. Regards Nic -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Banana [mailto:banana-bounces@ietf.org] Im Auftrag von Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) Gesendet: Freitag, 22. September 2017 19:21 An: Margaret Cullen <margaretw42@gmail.com<mailto:margaretw42@gmail.com>> Cc: David Allan I <david.i.allan@ericsson.com<mailto:david.i.allan@ericsson.com>>; Muley, Praveen (Nokia - US/Mountain View) <praveen.muley@nokia.com<mailto:praveen.muley@nokia.com>>; Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com<mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>>; Suresh Krishnan <suresh.krishnan@gmail.com<mailto:suresh.krishnan@gmail.com>>; David Sinicrope <david.sinicrope@ericsson.com<mailto:david.sinicrope@ericsson.com>>; Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp) <wim.henderickx@nokia.com<mailto:wim.henderickx@nokia.com>>; banana@ietf.org<mailto:banana@ietf.org> Betreff: Re: [Banana] Charter On 9/22/17, 10:09 AM, "Margaret Cullen" <margaretw42@gmail.com<mailto:margaretw42@gmail.com>> wrote: On Sep 22, 2017, at 11:53 AM, Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) <sgundave@cisco.com<mailto:sgundave@cisco.com>> wrote: IF we step back, the motivation for this work is DSL + LTE aggregation. Actually, there are quite a few people who have indicated that they would like to aggregate other link types. There was a presentation at IETF-97 about aggregating LTE and Wifi, one person on this thread mentioned wanted to aggregate two WiFi links, another person has talked about aggregating VPN links. etc. So, LTE and DSL are out; WiFi as a WAN link to home is not a known service; SATRAN access to home is unheard of. So, what are the two remaining links that are not WiFi, LTE, DSL, SATRAN and not aggregation? _______________________________________________ Banana mailing list Banana@ietf.org<mailto:Banana@ietf.org> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/banana _______________________________________________ Banana mailing list Banana@ietf.org<mailto:Banana@ietf.org> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/banana
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Juliusz Chroboczek
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Juliusz Chroboczek
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Juliusz Chroboczek
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Wasserman
- Re: [Banana] Charter N.Leymann
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo)
- [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Dave Dolson
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones philip.eardley
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Dave Dolson
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Jordan Melzer
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones David Allan I
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Jordan Melzer
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones David Allan I
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones David Allan I
- Re: [Banana] [ALU] Re: Charter Text w/Milestones Muley, Praveen (Nokia - US/Mountain View)
- Re: [Banana] [ALU] Re: Charter Text w/Milestones Zhangmingui (Martin)
- Re: [Banana] [ALU] Re: Charter Text w/Milestones Philipp S. Tiesel
- Re: [Banana] [ALU] Re: Charter Text w/Milestones Muley, Praveen (Nokia - US/Mountain View)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] [ALU] Re: Charter Text w/Milestones Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Jordan Melzer
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] [ALU] Re: Charter Text w/Milestones pierrick.seite
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Juliusz Chroboczek
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Juliusz Chroboczek
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Jordan Melzer
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Margaret Wasserman
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Brian Trammell (IETF)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Banana] Charter Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Banana] Charter Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Muley, Praveen (Nokia - US/Mountain View)
- Re: [Banana] Charter mrcullen42
- Re: [Banana] Charter mrcullen42
- Re: [Banana] Charter Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Zhangmingui (Martin)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Brian Trammell (IETF)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Muley, Praveen (Nokia - US/Mountain View)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter David Allan I
- Re: [Banana] Charter Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Zhangmingui (Martin)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Suresh Krishnan
- Re: [Banana] Charter HeidemannC
- Re: [Banana] Charter N.Leymann
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Tommy Pauly
- Re: [Banana] Charter Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Wasserman
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Wasserman
- Re: [Banana] Charter Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter philip.eardley
- Re: [Banana] Charter Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter David Sinicrope
- Re: [Banana] Charter Florin Baboescu
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Suresh Krishnan
- Re: [Banana] Charter Zhangmingui (Martin)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter David Sinicrope
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Joerg Deutschmann
- Re: [Banana] Charter N.Leymann
- Re: [Banana] Charter Mirja Kühlewind
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter David Sinicrope
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter David Sinicrope