Re: [Banana] Charter

Hi Sri,

The problem statement you are quoting was never presented in a BOF, and there is no expectation that it will be a work item of the currently proposed WG.  It is an old, expired I-D, from before the group had reached an understanding of our current scope and focus  Even at the time it was posted, feedback indicate that it was too DSL/LTE & BBF-specific. 

The “BANANA Scope and Problem Description” presented at the Informational BOF at IETF-97 can be found here:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/97/materials/slides-97-banana-banana-scope-and-problem-description/ <https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/97/materials/slides-97-banana-banana-scope-and-problem-description/>

That presentation represents where we were in discussing/refining our problem statement and scope as of November of 2016.  As you can see, it is not DSL/LTE-specific, at all. 

Our thinking about the problem was refined considerably on the BANANA mailing list after IETF-97, and at this point the current problem statement and scope for the proposed WG can be found in the first few paragraphs of the charter text.

Margaret

> On Sep 25, 2017, at 12:43 PM, Sri Gundavelli (sgundave) <sgundave@cisco.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Nic,
> 
>> I do not agree here. Yes, DLS+LTE is a very valid use case with a lot of
>> momentum, but there are other use cases which were also mentioned during
>> the BoF. E.g. Bundling of SAT + DSL (and in fact there are offerings,
>> providing Internet over Satellite for home users as well with - very
>> small bandwidth DSL - as a backup). Why do you assume that WiFi means
>> WAN? Most of the home routers today provide WLAN and there are scenarios
>> where the WLAN of different customers is being aggregated.
> 
> 
> Ok. Lets quickly review the PS document that was used for this
> discussions, draft-zhang-banana-problem-statement-03.txt ("Problem
> Statement: Bandwidth Aggregation for Internet Access²)
> 
> "
> 1. Introduction
> 
>   Use cases of BANdwidth Aggregation for interNet Access (BANANA,
>   a.k.a., Hybrid Access) are described in the Technical Report [TR-348]
>   published by Broadband Forum: by providing Hybrid Access, Service
> 
> ³
> 
> Your use-cases are what BBF has defined per your PS. I assumed its clearly
> about DSL + LTE aggregation, that is driving this work. Now, if the
> argument is we need DSL + SATRAN, please point me to one RG that has
> support for DSL and Satellite, or a deployment where an RG uses Wi-Fi as a
> WAN link. Sure, I also saw the comment from Margaret that "one person on
> this thread mentioned wanted to aggregate two WiFi links, another person
> has talked about aggregating VPN links².  I wonder, if we have we made it
> so easy that we can create IETG WG¹s so easily, based on such individual
> wishes, with no details on how and where its used. Its well understood
> that link-aggregation has value and nothing new there. But, please present
> very specific use-cases beyond BBF use-case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Regards
> Sri
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 9/25/17, 1:42 AM, "N.Leymann@telekom.de" <N.Leymann@telekom.de> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Sri,
>> 
>> I do not agree here. Yes, DLS+LTE is a very valid use case with a lot of
>> momentum, but there are other use cases which were also mentioned during
>> the BoF. E.g. Bundling of SAT + DSL (and in fact there are offerings,
>> providing Internet over Satellite for home users as well with - very
>> small bandwidth DSL - as a backup). Why do you assume that WiFi means
>> WAN? Most of the home routers today provide WLAN and there are scenarios
>> where the WLAN of different customers is being aggregated.
>> 
>> I think we should not rule out any technology for the BANANA work.
>> 
>> Regards
>> 
>> Nic
>> 
>> 
>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>> Von: Banana [mailto:banana-bounces@ietf.org] Im Auftrag von Sri
>> Gundavelli (sgundave)
>> Gesendet: Freitag, 22. September 2017 19:21
>> An: Margaret Cullen <margaretw42@gmail.com>
>> Cc: David Allan I <david.i.allan@ericsson.com>; Muley, Praveen (Nokia -
>> US/Mountain View) <praveen.muley@nokia.com>; Alexandre Petrescu
>> <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>; Suresh Krishnan
>> <suresh.krishnan@gmail.com>; David Sinicrope
>> <david.sinicrope@ericsson.com>; Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
>> <wim.henderickx@nokia.com>; banana@ietf.org
>> Betreff: Re: [Banana] Charter
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 9/22/17, 10:09 AM, "Margaret Cullen" <margaretw42@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Sep 22, 2017, at 11:53 AM, Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
>>>> <sgundave@cisco.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> IF we step back, the motivation for this work is DSL + LTE aggregation.
>>> 
>>> Actually, there are quite a few people who have indicated that they
>>> would like to aggregate other link types.  There was a presentation at
>>> IETF-97 about aggregating LTE and Wifi, one person on this thread
>>> mentioned wanted to aggregate two WiFi links, another person has talked
>>> about aggregating VPN links. etc.
>>> 
>> 
>> So, LTE and DSL are out;  WiFi as a WAN link to home is not a known
>> service; SATRAN access to home is unheard of.
>> 
>> So, what are the two remaining links that are not WiFi, LTE, DSL, SATRAN
>> and not aggregation?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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>> Banana@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/banana
> 
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