Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones
"Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)" <sgundave@cisco.com> Tue, 04 April 2017 18:55 UTC
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From: "Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)" <sgundave@cisco.com>
To: David Allan I <david.i.allan@ericsson.com>, Margaret Cullen <margaretw42@gmail.com>, "banana@ietf.org" <banana@ietf.org>
CC: Mirja Kuehlewind <ietf@kuehlewind.net>, Suresh Krishnan <suresh.krishnan@ericsson.com>
Thread-Topic: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones
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Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2017 18:55:32 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones
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> So before progressing, I think more effort needs to be put into >demonstrating that there is a common problem to be solved that is any >more than configuration of what I believe to be a boutique use case. Agree with Dave. I am not understanding what this group intends to develop. I am all for bringing new features/addressing gaps in protocol specific groups such as MPTCP/DMM ..etc. Sri On 3/30/17, 11:12 AM, "Banana on behalf of David Allan I" <banana-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of david.i.allan@ericsson.com> wrote: >HI > >I have to admit I have a few problems with this.... > >First, two items in the interest of full disclosure, > >1) I'm focused on the converged operator case where this is likely to be >a managed service, and my comments are a result of viewing the problem >through that lens. As such, operators already have tools to do a chunk of >this (e.g. policy and configuration) which they will simply extend as >necessary vs. deploy new protocols. > >2) I have a leadership position in Broadband Forum where we have been >working this space for some time. We expect to do further work as part of >efforts to add fixed access/hybrid access directly to a 5G core. This is >to satisfy the aspirations of a number of European carriers of have both >wireless and wireline offerings and wish to converge them. This is a >project we are initiating in cooperation with 3GPP with deliverables to >be complete for release 16(YE 2018), and I would expect this to address a >chunk of the wishlist in the charter independently of any BANANA efforts. >My reasons for thinking this outlined above, the bootstrapping and >configuration I would expect to be achieved by augmenting already >specified and deployed tools. > >IF this were to go forward I would want to see the necessary functions >decomposed, and separate out initial bootstrapping of the service from >steady state operation. A toolbox of protocols that could be individually >adopted would serve the industry better than a god protocol. That being >said, if bootstrapping and initial configuration is taken off the table >as not of use to my constituency, I am highly skeptical that the steady >state operation of any of a number of solutions can be genericized to be >common to the set of approaches currently on the table... Off the top of >my head I would characterize the steady state functions as: > - routing to an off path proxy <-- property of the individual protocol >solution > - flow control <-- property of the individual protocol solution, e.g. >TCP can be dealt with differently than UDP, differently than something >like QUIC > - maintaining ordering guarantees <-- property of the individual >protocol solution > - fault detection <-- COULD be separate OAM, or bundled into the >individual solution's flow control, ergo part of the specific solution.... > >So before progressing, I think more effort needs to be put into >demonstrating that there is a common problem to be solved that is any >more than configuration of what I believe to be a boutique use case. > >I hope this helps >Dave > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Banana [mailto:banana-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Margaret Cullen >Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 11:10 AM >To: banana@ietf.org >Cc: Mirja Kuehlewind <ietf@kuehlewind.net>; Suresh Krishnan ><suresh.krishnan@ericsson.com> >Subject: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones > >Here is the (wordsmithed) charter text from last night. I have also >added milestones. > >At this point, the text attempts to be neutral about the subject of >whether there will be an MPTCP encapsulation (presumably done in the >MPTCP WG) or not. We might want to update the text based on the outcome >of today¹s MPTCP meeting if there is any clear conclusion. > >Thoughts? Comments? > >Any feedback will be appreciated! > >Margaret > >The BANdwidth Aggregation for Network Access (BANANA) Working Group is >chartered to develop solution(s) to support dynamic path selection on a >per-packet basis in networks that have more than one point of attachment >to the Internet. > >Bandwith Aggregation consists of splitting local traffic across multiple >Internet links on a per-packet basis, including the ability to split a >single flow across multiple links when necessary. > >It is the goal of this WG to produce a Bandwidth Aggregation solution >that will provide the following benefits: > >- Higher Per-Flow Bandwidth: Many Internet links available to homes > and small offices (DSL, Cable, LTE, Satellite, etc.) have relatively > low bandwidth. Users may wish to run applications (such as > streaming video, or content up/downloads) that require (or could > benefit from) more bandwidth for a single traffic flow than is > available on any of the local links. A Bandwidth Aggregation > solution could supply the needed bandwidth by splitting a single > traffic flow across multiple Internet links. > >- Reduced Cost: Traffic sharing on a per-packet basis allows the full > bandwidth of the lowest-cost link to be used first, only using a > higher-cost link when the lowest-cost link is full. > >- Increased Reliability: When one Internet link goes down, ongoing > application flows can be moved to another link, preventing service > disruption. > >Proposed BANANA solutions use different approaches (e.g. tunnels, >proxies, etc.) to split and recombine traffic, but at an abstract level, >they involve a local (hardware or software) component on the multi-access >network, a remote component within the Internet, and mechanisms for those >components to find each other, exchange signalling information, and >direct traffic to each other. We refer to these functional components as >the Local and Remote "BANANA Boxes", and we refer to the method they use >to direct traffic to each other as a "BANANA Encapsulation". > >The Bandwidth Aggregation solutions developed in this group will work >whether the attached links are provided by a single Internet Service >Provider or multiple Providers. > >The BANANA WG will have the following work items: > >- Determine how Local and Remote BANANA Boxes find each other. > >- Specify a signalling protocol that can be used to send configuration > and control information between BANANA boxes, including: > - IP Prefixes of local links > - Information about link properties & status > - Information needed by the encapsulations > >- Select (and extend, if necessary) an existing tunneling > encapsulation for sending traffic between BANANA Boxes. > >- Work with other IETF WGs defining BANANA encapsulations > (if any) to ensure that the discovery mechanism and signalling > protocol will meet their needs. > >BANANA Boxes will determine if a specific flow is eligible for Bandwith >Aggregation. If a flow is not eligible, it will not be split across >multiple attached links. > >For this initial charter, we will focus on how Local BANANA Boxes >communicate with Remote BANANA Boxes. We will not address the topic of >cooperation between multiple Local BANANA Boxes. > >MILESTONES >(Assumes WG Chartering by May 2017) >Dec 2017 Adopt WG draft for discovery/configuration mechanism Dec 2017 >Adopt WG draft for signalling proocol Dec 2017 Adopt WG draft for tunnel >encapsulation Oct 2018 WGLC on discovery/configuration mechanism Oct 2018 >WGLC on signalling protocol Oct 2018 WGLC on tunnel encapsulation Apr >2019 Send discovery/configuration mechanism to the IESG Apr 2019 Send >signalling protocl to the IESG Apr 2019 Send tunnel encapsulation to the >IESG > >_______________________________________________ >Banana mailing list >Banana@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/banana >_______________________________________________ >Banana mailing list >Banana@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/banana
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Juliusz Chroboczek
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Juliusz Chroboczek
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Juliusz Chroboczek
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Wasserman
- Re: [Banana] Charter N.Leymann
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo)
- [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Dave Dolson
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones philip.eardley
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Dave Dolson
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Jordan Melzer
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones David Allan I
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Jordan Melzer
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones David Allan I
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones David Allan I
- Re: [Banana] [ALU] Re: Charter Text w/Milestones Muley, Praveen (Nokia - US/Mountain View)
- Re: [Banana] [ALU] Re: Charter Text w/Milestones Zhangmingui (Martin)
- Re: [Banana] [ALU] Re: Charter Text w/Milestones Philipp S. Tiesel
- Re: [Banana] [ALU] Re: Charter Text w/Milestones Muley, Praveen (Nokia - US/Mountain View)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] [ALU] Re: Charter Text w/Milestones Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Jordan Melzer
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] [ALU] Re: Charter Text w/Milestones pierrick.seite
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Juliusz Chroboczek
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Juliusz Chroboczek
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Jordan Melzer
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Margaret Wasserman
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Brian Trammell (IETF)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Text w/Milestones Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Banana] Charter Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Banana] Charter Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Muley, Praveen (Nokia - US/Mountain View)
- Re: [Banana] Charter mrcullen42
- Re: [Banana] Charter mrcullen42
- Re: [Banana] Charter Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Zhangmingui (Martin)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Brian Trammell (IETF)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Muley, Praveen (Nokia - US/Mountain View)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter David Allan I
- Re: [Banana] Charter Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Zhangmingui (Martin)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Suresh Krishnan
- Re: [Banana] Charter HeidemannC
- Re: [Banana] Charter N.Leymann
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Tommy Pauly
- Re: [Banana] Charter Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Wasserman
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Wasserman
- Re: [Banana] Charter Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter philip.eardley
- Re: [Banana] Charter Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter David Sinicrope
- Re: [Banana] Charter Florin Baboescu
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Suresh Krishnan
- Re: [Banana] Charter Zhangmingui (Martin)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter David Sinicrope
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Joerg Deutschmann
- Re: [Banana] Charter N.Leymann
- Re: [Banana] Charter Mirja Kühlewind
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [Banana] Charter David Sinicrope
- Re: [Banana] Charter Margaret Cullen
- Re: [Banana] Charter David Sinicrope