Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extension for lame delegation definition
Magnus Sandberg <mem@fallback.netnod.se> Tue, 02 May 2023 09:06 UTC
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From: Magnus Sandberg <mem@fallback.netnod.se>
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Subject: Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extension for lame delegation definition
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Hi all, I think one of the problems are that we look at the term from different perspectives. For me "lame delegation" is a log messages from the resolver software. A lot of the comments are more from the human view and with different operational angles or potential end user experience. If we only see it from the resolver software point of view it is something in the lines of "the status of the response (from what I thought was an authoritative server) didn't match my expectations", or "I didn't get a response at all". When humans interpret that log message, we can see it from the resolver operation view, the zone owner view, the end users experience when trying to reach some service within the child zone, including slow responses as the resolver has to do extra work to find a way around the problem, etc. So too many looking glasses or angles to know what we try to make clearer. Regards, // mem (without hats) Den 2023-05-01 kl. 18:09, skrev Paul Hoffman: > It would be grand if a bunch more people would speak up on this thread. > > --Paul Hoffman, wearing my co-author hat > > On Apr 27, 2023, at 1:05 PM, Benno Overeinder <benno@nlnetlabs.nl> wrote: >> >> Dear WG, >> >> The WGLC was closed for draft-ietf-dnsop-rfc8499bis, and the discussion >> on lame delegation did not find consensus, but two specific suggestions >> were put forward. We would like to include one of them in rfc8499bis if >> we can get consensus to do so. >> >> The chairs are seeking input on the following two suggestions: >> >> * Either we leave the definition of “lame delegation” as it is with the >> comment that no consensus could be found, or >> >> * alternatively, we include a shorter definition without specific >> examples. >> >> 1) Leaving the definition of lame delegation as in the current >> draft-ietf-dnsop-rfc8499bis, and including the addition by the >> authors that: >> >> "These early definitions do not match current use of the term "lame >> delegation", but there is also no consensus on what a lame delegation >> is." (Maybe change to ... no consensus what *exactly* a lame >> delegation is.) >> >> 2) Update the definition as proposed by Duane and with the agreement of >> some others (see mailing list https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dnsop/4E1AQKGivEHtJDB85gSNhofRuyM/): >> >> "A lame delegation is said to exist when one or more authoritative >> servers designated by the delegating NS RRset or by the child's apex >> NS RRset answers non-authoritatively [or not at all] for a zone". >> >> The chairs ask the WG to discuss these two alternative definitions of >> the term "lame delegation". We close the consultation period on >> Thursday 4 May. >> >> Regards, >> >> Benno > > _______________________________________________ > DNSOP mailing list > DNSOP@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop
- [DNSOP] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extension for la… Benno Overeinder
- Re: [DNSOP] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extension fo… George Michaelson
- Re: [DNSOP] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extension fo… Joe Abley
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Tim Wicinski
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Wessels, Duane
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… John Kristoff
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Hollenbeck, Scott
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… libor.peltan
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Brian Dickson
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Mark Delany
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Joe Abley
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Paul Vixie
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Wes Hardaker
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Paul Vixie
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Ralf Weber
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Magnus Sandberg
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Frederico A C Neves
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Peter Thomassen
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Wes Hardaker
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Paul Wouters
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Paul Wouters
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Peter Thomassen
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Peter Thomassen
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Joe Abley
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Joe Abley
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Peter Thomassen
- Re: [DNSOP] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extension fo… John Kristoff
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Warren Kumari
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Havard Eidnes
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Havard Eidnes
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Warren Kumari
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extension fo… Donald Eastlake
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Havard Eidnes
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Mark Delany
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Warren Kumari
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Havard Eidnes
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Havard Eidnes
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Joe Abley
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… George Michaelson
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Brian Dickson
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Joe Abley
- [DNSOP] Delegation acceptance checks [was: Re: [E… Peter Thomassen
- Re: [DNSOP] Delegation acceptance checks [was: Re… Warren Kumari
- Re: [DNSOP] Delegation acceptance checks Havard Eidnes
- Re: [DNSOP] Delegation acceptance checks [was: Re… Mark Delany
- Re: [DNSOP] Delegation acceptance checks [was: Re… Joe Abley
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] Delegation acceptance checks [was: Re… Brian Dickson
- Re: [DNSOP] Delegation acceptance checks [was: Re… John Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] Delegation acceptance checks [was: Re… Dr Eberhard W Lisse
- Re: [DNSOP] Delegation acceptance checks Dr Eberhard W Lisse
- Re: [DNSOP] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extension fo… Benno Overeinder
- Re: [DNSOP] Delegation acceptance checks Havard Eidnes
- Re: [DNSOP] Delegation acceptance checks Joe Abley
- Re: [DNSOP] Delegation acceptance checks [was: Re… John Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] Delegation acceptance checks [was: Re… Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] Delegation acceptance checks [was: Re… Peter Thomassen
- Re: [DNSOP] Delegation acceptance checks Peter Thomassen
- Re: [DNSOP] Delegation acceptance checks Mark Elkins
- Re: [DNSOP] Delegation acceptance checks [was: Re… John Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] Delegation acceptance checks [was: Re… Kim Davies
- Re: [DNSOP] Delegation acceptance checks [was: Re… Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] Delegation acceptance checks [was: Re… John Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] Delegation acceptance checks [was: Re… Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] Delegation acceptance checks [was: Re… John R Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] Delegation acceptance checks [was: Re… Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] Delegation acceptance checks [was: Re… Rubens Kuhl
- Re: [DNSOP] Delegation acceptance checks [was: Re… John R Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] Delegation acceptance checks [was: Re… Edward Lewis