Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extension for lame delegation definition
Edward Lewis <edward.lewis@icann.org> Fri, 05 May 2023 19:41 UTC
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From: Edward Lewis <edward.lewis@icann.org>
To: DNSOP Working Group <dnsop@ietf.org>
CC: Mark Delany <m9p@india.emu.st>
Thread-Topic: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extension for lame delegation definition
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Date: Fri, 05 May 2023 19:41:38 +0000
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Subject: Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extension for lame delegation definition
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On 5/4/23, 5:08 AM, "DNSOP on behalf of Mark Delany" <dnsop-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of m9p@india.emu.st> wrote: > > I have one last question. Regardless of whether we agree precisely on what "lame" means, > what is the call to action when a zone or its name servers are declared lame? > > And how is that different from any other form of miscreant auth behaviour such as > inconsistency? At the time when I was working on lame delegations, I had a specific purpose - identify where in the name tree "upwards referrals" were being sent. At the time, there was some importance to this, I presented at a number of conferences and was dubbed "Mr. Lame" for a while. But the importance of this faded quickly as the buggy implementations mishandling upwards referrals were fixed. That's about it - and my 15 minutes of lame fame. > I mean if "lame" is a precious historical term that warrants considered clarification, > surely it has a very specific value that we can all act on, right? So what is that > very specific value? I'll agree that it seems odd that the term "lame delegation" is getting a lot of attention now. In the scheme of things, it's just one more arcane element in the DNS landscape, a landscape littered by misnomers, archaic-references, multiple-meaning terms, and things that aren't "things" anymore. I do think that consistency is important so long as there are old RFC documents and other materials laying around. If a term takes on a new meaning that is fine, but a reader trawling through the Internet Engineering Notes or RFCs with only 1, 2, or 3-digit numbers, ought to be able to make sense of the old words. It's not the sacredness of the old terms, but the need to still be able to read the documents. Outside of that, I'm a bit surprised that I'm bothering to spend any time typing about lameness anymore. __
- [DNSOP] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extension for la… Benno Overeinder
- Re: [DNSOP] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extension fo… George Michaelson
- Re: [DNSOP] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extension fo… Joe Abley
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Tim Wicinski
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Wessels, Duane
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… John Kristoff
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Hollenbeck, Scott
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… libor.peltan
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Brian Dickson
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Mark Delany
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Joe Abley
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Paul Vixie
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Wes Hardaker
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Paul Vixie
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Ralf Weber
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Magnus Sandberg
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Frederico A C Neves
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Peter Thomassen
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Wes Hardaker
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Paul Wouters
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Paul Wouters
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Peter Thomassen
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Peter Thomassen
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Joe Abley
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Joe Abley
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Peter Thomassen
- Re: [DNSOP] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extension fo… John Kristoff
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Warren Kumari
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Havard Eidnes
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Havard Eidnes
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Warren Kumari
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extension fo… Donald Eastlake
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Havard Eidnes
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Mark Delany
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Warren Kumari
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Havard Eidnes
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Havard Eidnes
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Joe Abley
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… George Michaelson
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Brian Dickson
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Joe Abley
- [DNSOP] Delegation acceptance checks [was: Re: [E… Peter Thomassen
- Re: [DNSOP] Delegation acceptance checks [was: Re… Warren Kumari
- Re: [DNSOP] Delegation acceptance checks Havard Eidnes
- Re: [DNSOP] Delegation acceptance checks [was: Re… Mark Delany
- Re: [DNSOP] Delegation acceptance checks [was: Re… Joe Abley
- Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extens… Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] Delegation acceptance checks [was: Re… Brian Dickson
- Re: [DNSOP] Delegation acceptance checks [was: Re… John Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] Delegation acceptance checks [was: Re… Dr Eberhard W Lisse
- Re: [DNSOP] Delegation acceptance checks Dr Eberhard W Lisse
- Re: [DNSOP] WGLC rfc8499bis one week extension fo… Benno Overeinder
- Re: [DNSOP] Delegation acceptance checks Havard Eidnes
- Re: [DNSOP] Delegation acceptance checks Joe Abley
- Re: [DNSOP] Delegation acceptance checks [was: Re… John Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] Delegation acceptance checks [was: Re… Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] Delegation acceptance checks [was: Re… Peter Thomassen
- Re: [DNSOP] Delegation acceptance checks Peter Thomassen
- Re: [DNSOP] Delegation acceptance checks Mark Elkins
- Re: [DNSOP] Delegation acceptance checks [was: Re… John Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] Delegation acceptance checks [was: Re… Kim Davies
- Re: [DNSOP] Delegation acceptance checks [was: Re… Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] Delegation acceptance checks [was: Re… John Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] Delegation acceptance checks [was: Re… Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] Delegation acceptance checks [was: Re… John R Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] Delegation acceptance checks [was: Re… Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] Delegation acceptance checks [was: Re… Rubens Kuhl
- Re: [DNSOP] Delegation acceptance checks [was: Re… John R Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] Delegation acceptance checks [was: Re… Edward Lewis