Re: [Iasa20] 6635bis

Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> Fri, 26 April 2019 04:07 UTC

Return-Path: <ekr@rtfm.com>
X-Original-To: iasa20@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: iasa20@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E47512027E for <iasa20@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 21:07:39 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.899
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DQhj2rKAYydG for <iasa20@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 21:07:37 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-lf1-x12d.google.com (mail-lf1-x12d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E6F56120113 for <iasa20@ietf.org>; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 21:07:36 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-lf1-x12d.google.com with SMTP id o16so1390674lfl.7 for <iasa20@ietf.org>; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 21:07:36 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=uR5Zd1qycWb69W6Tl51AzOyXrQ5KXzeioTe3UV07qCk=; b=TfTE3jJX+XuSVYuwA7F1hCJSc8rxkE4Mkws8QDNfSeiw/+jVYL63jssgbdHgn01qx/ jm6ke0iBwCeA/aNqFplx8x+Fhd1cBKjDO2GkiwPSEMaJAFOHNz8A/3Kb2Np+plpByW5C fNp2wnb4a4YB9mLD8lkq8dEGOKpq1IKQgIFdm/s2PwdYgGfT2QxucwE+LsQqjpCqhkKr Szq12EFRNP6vQ60shlau86OpLXLxDYmyma0/YAhgcW6p6Chi1XpJ+PQQOeAMpi9BI2h0 Hi1YLHjCL83ZgBZst3LnmWhiJqAR0AqCmcJzQGya2gQvP8ZpSjRgNcM/OGhw3L8u7bZV +qiA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=uR5Zd1qycWb69W6Tl51AzOyXrQ5KXzeioTe3UV07qCk=; b=o20cpMCWMu9GSuNd9giz03tTxbWlBoP5ADgWlNidieKNiwbZZZfQRMy2KngHacupqj sZGJkfEaKDOlSXCFlDFDrR9QWt6S8RZJn7nUqE2ifXw++HWdTQ5y7TMS7xc5ObodelqJ 1YNWggMoznkkw4ZlDaPwmF/G+a1WCv8S9oqanyR+7TQzE71ruF7u4jkzlLUgbNdI79OH s9zYWVEsXxThmAHoTVsRTtU9blHm2oUlL1BWECEXWdxO0zGdVX1lW0SrtRioHVyjAwZ2 K5LF5yi0fyQrcYlQz/SOAJRiskRjmEo41qsuFg/+IVJt6UGNbhQkOL/cOjfK/TqS7Lc1 wLtw==
X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVfVeivUjBNCpNO0uj7kggsXfDU9gY2UiqSvJQj9fMJBtCfHPJY 5LBtrXvogsBQ9nM2CZmXEgbKoOPRZfdDuudG46lMkg==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqz11ALylmzl/EOojdF1/u5x5VCy/gzhEjX/PgYMcj7YsOsDyvIwHeQKdqjlLwgwnv/hn7gaVDYm6QS7Z5k0KEw=
X-Received: by 2002:ac2:4109:: with SMTP id b9mr6241828lfi.90.1556251655039; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 21:07:35 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <CCCFB260-660F-4CB9-AA4F-60F8B88465CB@sn3rd.com> <0A8ABED3-77B1-487C-BCCA-F1A4523DB9CF@gmail.com> <e1d5c5fe-42ff-91d7-ed77-7192fde27cd5@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <e1d5c5fe-42ff-91d7-ed77-7192fde27cd5@gmail.com>
From: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2019 21:06:58 -0700
Message-ID: <CABcZeBM+KrDD5MzT531qNwPnDaHBdwTx2VNyJ_cdWdTrXSJgaQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Cc: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>, Sean Turner <sean@sn3rd.com>, IASA 2 WG <iasa20@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000014746005876713d8"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/iasa20/RTb0xTqqAks-7JH-3dSsBCjhulI>
Subject: Re: [Iasa20] 6635bis
X-BeenThere: iasa20@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Discussions relating to reorganising the IETF administrative structures in the so called “IASA 2.0” project. <iasa20.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/iasa20>, <mailto:iasa20-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/iasa20/>
List-Post: <mailto:iasa20@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:iasa20-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iasa20>, <mailto:iasa20-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2019 04:07:39 -0000

n Thu, Apr 25, 2019 at 8:41 PM Brian E Carpenter <
brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> wrote:, that is clearly stated as a "paid
contractor", as is the "RFC Publisher contractor".

>
> To me it would make no sense to have *individuals* employed by the LLC who
> are part of either of those teams. So it's all or nothing: the Production
> Center and the Publisher would have to be either 100% in-house employees or
> 100% contracted out. But why we'd want the LLC, which we were promised
> would be lightweight and cheap, to starting hiring software and operations
> staff and buying or renting servers, is a bit beyond me.
>

Hi Brian,

I'd like to dig into a few of the operational concerns you raise here.

First, you say that you think that the RPC and the Publisher should be
either 100% in house or 100% contracted. In my experience, both as someone
on the employer and employed side, it's quite common to have a mix of
employees and consultants. For instance, you might have a staff of people
who do the regular work and then occasionally hire specialists to do some
work that you don't need a FTE for. Another example is when you have a
temporary increase in load so you hire extra contract staff to fill in the
gaps during the heavy period under the assumption that you'll let them go
when the load decreases. It's also not uncommon to have some FTEs who
manage a contract with a company which does most of the work. Can you say
more on why you think this is unworkable?

Second, you contrast the idea of hiring staff to do these jobs with a
"lightewight and cheap" LLC that contracts these functions out. Lightweight
is kind of subjective, but as a practical matter, it's often more expensive
to contract out tasks than it is to have them done by FTEs because you pay
a premium for a short term engagement and/or one which is easier to
terminate. Of course, if you want that flexibility then this is advisable,
but in cases where you have a relatively steady base of work, then it's
often cheaper to have FTEs (and, as above, fill in gaps with contractors).

Or am I misunderstanding you?

-Ekr