Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/15 to 7/29/2020)
Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> Tue, 28 July 2020 10:19 UTC
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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2020 12:18:46 +0200
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To: Zhuangshunwan <zhuangshunwan@huawei.com>
Cc: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <ketant=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>, Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>, "idr@ietf. org" <idr@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/15 to 7/29/2020)
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Hello, > I have one question for your per-prefix use cases: How do you set Widecommunity for prefixes? In pretty much exactly the same way today standard or extended or large communities are being used. Say on PE1 you are sourcing /24. However for some reasons you would like to advertise it to your upstream ISP1 with AS-PATH X and to ISP2 with AS-PATH X X X X as the origin ASN. So you attach to the update advertised from PE1 the below wide community which when parsed by the egress to ISP2 will do the actual prepend. 3 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-registered-wide-bgp-communities-02#section-3>. Example Customer of the source AS number 100 requests to execute AS_PATH prepend 4 times when advertising the prefixes to AS number 2424. We will use the following community assigned on ingress or at the prefix origination. PREPEND N TIMES TO AS Type: 0x0001 S = 0x00000064 (dec 100) F = 0x80 C = 0x00000000 H = 0x00 T = 0x00000978 (dec 2424) L = 0x001D (dec 29 octets) E = none R = IANA assigned P = 0x04 (dec 4) Thx, R. On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 12:06 PM Zhuangshunwan <zhuangshunwan@huawei.com> wrote: > > > Hi Robert, > > > > Thank you for sharing the well-designed use cases of WideCommunity! We > have learned your excellent draft and have benefited greatly from it. > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-registered-wide-bgp-communities-02 > > > > We believe that the use cases are not limited to the above. ISP' route > policies can be classified into static policies and dynamic policies. > Especially, those ISPs who are managing IGWs and POPs often have to modify > route policies on devices with great care. A suitable tool should be found > for dynamic policies management. > > Widecommunity is suitable for carrying route policies, so the RPD solution > is proposed. In fact, the RPD solution is triggered by a large number of > customer requirements. > > > > I have one question for your per-prefix use cases: How do you set > Widecommunity for prefixes? > > > > Thanks, > > Shunwan > > > > > > *From:* Robert Raszuk [mailto:robert@raszuk.net] > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 28, 2020 4:59 PM > *To:* Zhuangshunwan <zhuangshunwan@huawei.com> > *Cc:* Brendon H <brendonholm@outlook.com>; Huaimo Chen < > huaimo.chen@futurewei.com>; idr@ietf. org <idr@ietf.org>; Ketan > Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; Susan Hares < > shares@ndzh.com> > *Subject:* Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/15 to > 7/29/2020) > > > > Dear Shunwan, > > > > On the point of wide communities they are indeed designed to automate > limited policy propagation within the AS and beyond. > > > > But they travel along with the prefix from prefix originator or ingress to > a domain. > > > > It was never the intention of wide community authors to use them as config > snippets containers to be sent p2p from controller to a router. > > > > To summarize, if you implement wide communities you can use them along > with the prefixes to instruct the other side of the domain how to advertise > your routes. You do not need new SAFI for it. > > > > Many thx, > > R. > > > > On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 2:13 AM Zhuangshunwan <zhuangshunwan@huawei.com> > wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > Thanks for your review and comments! > > > > If we believe that wide community is an acceptable solution, then we will > realize that RPD is a good use case to push the wide community forward. > > > > RPD = New SAFI + wide community, and it is implemented in one > administrator domain. > > RPD can implement dynamic routing policy management per peer, per node, > and per administrator domain. > > And it can apply some optimization operations on the existing network. > When the optimization operations are canceled, the network can return to > the original running status. > > > > Best regards, > > Shunwan > > > > *From:* Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Brendon H > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 28, 2020 7:42 AM > *To:* Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>; Huaimo Chen < > huaimo.chen@futurewei.com> > *Cc:* idr@ietf. org <idr@ietf.org>; Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant= > 40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> > *Subject:* Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/15 to > 7/29/2020) > > > > > > sorry i've come in late on this "hot" topic, but after reviewing all the > information. > > i too agree with Roberts answer. > > > > With regard to the questions posed by Susan. > > > > Ad 1) No. > > Ad 2) No. > > Ad 3) No. > > Ad 4) No. > > Ad 5) Yes. > > > > > > kind regards, > > > > Brendon > > > > > > Sent from Outlook <http://aka.ms/weboutlook> > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Robert Raszuk < > robert@raszuk.net> > *Sent:* 28 July 2020 08:02 > *To:* Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com> > *Cc:* idr@ietf. org <idr@ietf.org>; Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) < > ketant=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> > *Subject:* Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/15 to > 7/29/2020) > > > > > > > [HC]: Yang model seems mainly used in relatively static or stable > configurations. > > > > Well that's a problem with the "user" or bad habits not with the YANG > model itself. > > > > Nothing stops to use config push as dynamically as required to network > elements. > > > > Best, > > Robert. > > > > > > On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 10:57 PM Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@futurewei.com> > wrote: > > Hi Ketan, > > > > Thanks much for your comments. > > My answers/explanations are inline below with prefix [HC]. > > > > >Some more/other comments on why I believe this draft is not a good idea: > > > > - How does the controller or provisioning entity know the status of > the Route Policy provisioning on the target router. Even that it was > successfully propagated to it and installed on it? > > [HC]: It seems that BGP protocols guarantees the BGP UPDATE with the > route policy reaches the target router. When a BGP speaker as a controller > sends a BGP UPDATE to a peer, there is no need for the ack from the peer > about whether it is received, processed, and installed. The controller is > monitoring the traffic of the network almost in real time, and adjusting > the traffic dynamically almost in real time... The former gets the status > of the network regarding to the traffic. > > > - Seems like one can have multiple policies advertised for a single > peer/neighbor? How would they be handled? > > [HC]: For multiple policies advertised to a single peer/neighbor, they are > processed one by one by the peer/neighbor.. > > > - The draft has support for IPv4 and IPv6 prefix list and AS regex. > What other route policy tools does the WG expect to extend in further > drafts? Perhaps we end up with yet another boatload of extension drafts for > BGP for RPD? > > [HC]: It seems that the current draft defines a small set of extensions (6 > sub TLVs), which is enough to support adjusting the traffic dynamically in > the live networks. If there are some new requirements in the future, the > extensions would be small too. > > > > We have Route Policy yang model defined at the IETF for provisioning of > route policies that provide better and more comprehensive solution than the > proposal in this document. That approach is also very robust from > operational perspective. We don’t need to be putting this into BGP protocol. > > [HC]: Yang model seems mainly used in relatively static or stable > configurations. For frequently changing route policies, the solution > proposed in the draft is more suitable. It makes the operations and > maintenance on the network simpler. For example, in one metro area network > without using the solution in the draft, planning and implementing an > adjustment/redirection of a service traffic takes days. After the solution > in the draft is deployed in the network with a controller NCE, this takes > just minutes instead of days. > > > > Best Regards, > > Huaimo > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) > <ketant=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> > *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2020 6:02 AM > *To:* Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>; Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> > *Cc:* idr@ietf. org <idr@ietf.org> > *Subject:* Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/15 to > 7/29/2020) > > > > +1 and I also agree on Jakob’s comments/discussion on a parallel thread. > > > > The individual version of this draft was called draft-li-idr-flowspec-rpd. > When it came up for WG adoption, perhaps most people thought it was yet > another Flowspec extension and did not have a close look at it. > > > > The draft got adopted in Nov 2019 and since then, there has hardly been > any change for it (other than IANA allocations update) : > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=draft-ietf-idr-rpd-00&url2=draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05 > <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Frfcdiff%3Furl1%3Ddraft-ietf-idr-rpd-00%26url2%3Ddraft-ietf-idr-rpd-05&data=02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C28cc9cc452284af4ab3508d82eef9d08%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637310953981956964&sdata=vUgOeTbdLbvoAWIi17vzORiS8UxREO4JoanDDuuGodM%3D&reserved=0> > > > > I am not sure if this document has received sufficient review and inputs > from the WG over the recent 9 months of its life as a WG document. Those > provided by Robert previously seem not to have been incorporated? > > > > Not sure if I missed implementation reports or some operator feedback on > this. > > > > Some more/other comments on why I believe this draft is not a good idea: > > > > - How does the controller or provisioning entity know the status of > the Route Policy provisioning on the target router. Even that it was > successfully propagated to it and installed on it? > - Seems like one can have multiple policies advertised for a single > peer/neighbor? How would they be handled? > - The draft has support for IPv4 and IPv6 prefix list and AS regex. > What other route policy tools does the WG expect to extend in further > drafts? Perhaps we end up with yet another boatload of extension drafts for > BGP for RPD? > > > > We have Route Policy yang model defined at the IETF for provisioning of > route policies that provide better and more comprehensive solution than the > proposal in this document. That approach is also very robust from > operational perspective. We don’t need to be putting this into BGP protocol. > > > > In summary, my suggestion would also be not proceed further on this > document. > > > > Thanks, > > Ketan > > > > *From:* Idr <idr-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *Robert Raszuk > *Sent:* 17 July 2020 18:38 > *To:* Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> > *Cc:* idr@ietf. org <idr@ietf.org> > *Subject:* Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/15 to > 7/29/2020) > > > > Dear IDR WG, > > > > As discussed previously on the list I strongly object to proceed with this > draft any further. > > > > While I am as others quite sceptical about distributing more configuration > over BGP this can be said to be debatable especially for p2mp applications. > > > > However including peer's IP address in the NLRI to which given policy > applies goes completely AGAINST BGP spray principle of p2mp > information distribution. Adding such extension to BGP can only deteriorate > the protocol further. It is not a fit in p2mp protocol to by definition use > it as p2p transport channel. > > > > The prefix 0 which is in the draft is not the solution to the above > problem... > > > > Moreover wide community ATOM also can already contain that peer's address > so placing it in the NLRI of MP_REACH is not needed at all. > > > > To the specific questions asked: > > > > Ad 1) No. > > Ad 2) No. > > Ad 3) No.. > > Ad 4) No. > > Ad 5) Yes. > > > > Kind regards, > > R. > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 3:11 PM Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com> wrote: > > This begins a 2 week WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd > > from 7/15 to 7/29/2020. You can obtain this draft at: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-rpd/ > <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-idr-rpd%2F&data=02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C28cc9cc452284af4ab3508d82eef9d08%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637310953981966953&sdata=te9utkoi5bJl%2BT167KdWJQ%2BHYXaOaogxnvPQZLvbbWI%3D&reserved=0> > > > > This draft defines a new AFI/SAFI and new atoms > > for the Wide Communities. This WG LC has been delayed > > as I waited for a resubmission of the Wide Communities draft. > > I had hoped to do these 2 WG LC in parallel. > > > > I’ve not received the Wide Communities draft, but we will > > start this WGLC to provide feedback to the authors. > > We may have to run a short follow-up to this WG LC > > If there are changes to the Wide Communities draft during > > Its WG LC. > > > > There is an IPR statement on this draft. > > > > In your responses please answer the following questions: > > > > 1) Do you feel this draft has an solution that is acceptable > > With the IPR as a WG RFC? > > > > 2) Do you feel this draft is ready to publish? > > > > 3) Do you know of implementations of this draft? > > > > 4) Do you know of deployments of this draft? > > If so, is this feature useful in the deploy ments. > > > > 5) Do you feel that Wide Communities is ready for > > Publication? > > > > Cheerily, Susan Hares > > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fidr&data=02%7C01%7Chuaimo.chen%40futurewei.com%7C28cc9cc452284af4ab3508d82eef9d08%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637310953981966953&sdata=uA9je9D95WX4sCUMQXWMpxWkKPo%2FbZY%2F1OiVNQKeggM%3D&reserved=0> > > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr >
- [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/15 to… Susan Hares
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Huaimo Chen
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Jakob Heitz (jheitz)
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Huaimo Chen
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Jakob Heitz (jheitz)
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Yangang
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Zhuangshunwan
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Wanghaibo (Rainsword)
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… wangzitao
- [Idr] 答复: WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Chenshuanglong
- [Idr] 回复: WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… jasonlu(陆素建)
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Jakob Heitz (jheitz)
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Haoyu Song
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Linda Dunbar
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Jakob Heitz (jheitz)
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Linda Dunbar
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Jakob Heitz (jheitz)
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… reta Yang
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… ruoxin huang
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Wanghaibo (Rainsword)
- [Idr] 答复: WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Lizhenbin
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Dongjie (Jimmy)
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Huzhibo
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Xiejingrong (Jingrong)
- [Idr] 答复: WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Lizhenbin
- [Idr] 答复: WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Lizhenbin
- [Idr] 答复: WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Haoweiguo
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Robert Raszuk
- [Idr] 答复: WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Ou Liang
- Re: [Idr] 答复: WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt … Gyan Mishra
- Re: [Idr] 答复: WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt … Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Linda Dunbar
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Jakob Heitz (jheitz)
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] 答复: WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt … Gyan Mishra
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Jakob Heitz (jheitz)
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Gyan Mishra
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Wanghaibo (Rainsword)
- Re: [Idr] [GROW] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.t… Randy Bush
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… chenhuan6@chinatelecom.cn
- Re: [Idr] [GROW] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.t… Sebastian Becker
- Re: [Idr] [GROW] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.t… Gert Doering
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Wanghaibo (Rainsword)
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Wanghaibo (Rainsword)
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Huaimo Chen
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Brian Dickson
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Brendon H
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Zhuangshunwan
- [Idr] 答复: WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… qinfengwei
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… duzongpeng@foxmail.com
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Jakob Heitz (jheitz)
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Gert Doering
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… zhuyq8
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Zhuangshunwan
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Dongjie (Jimmy)
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Ignas Bagdonas
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… tony.li
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Huaimo Chen
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Donald Eastlake
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Huaimo Chen
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Huaimo Chen
- Re: [Idr] [GROW] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.t… Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez
- Re: [Idr] WG LC on draft-ietf-idr-rpd-05.txt (7/1… Zhuangshunwan