Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev
"Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com> Thu, 25 April 2019 14:47 UTC
Return-Path: <agmalis@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C00212011A for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 07:47:57 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.999
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nGiYjouyLwKA for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 07:47:55 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-qt1-x82a.google.com (mail-qt1-x82a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::82a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C275E1200FA for <ietf@ietf.org>; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 07:47:54 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-qt1-x82a.google.com with SMTP id g4so324073qtq.10 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 07:47:54 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=g6E6n6WSHpqBYhINgfrpgb+XQ+hF4asXbuhw1GT4JAo=; b=dtSHnG0trjqCBkB7bpHG257x088LTCEYHLzWgPldSVsNqW3LNjHPVKUdegaCJJAnEv j9p1nsckXbIWMc0Zr8n9mbWSbksE0DqFwc+sI+huSjkOEl/EoVcsIo56yqwbB6Im9ora Oq8EFrx8OWeN/F4Y3ONzWelBZv+9tU/pk35Z3g3/ucitfRfMsoFJ79vsjeLviuSGyZ1d Lg4x8z/ElvBwPdRehyRb2GCKv0OoMe2Ovp4A54fOUeOYybXEhSNgW3367YWescHzL9VP JkFDx2UZl3LUafmUXWmjSlZ0BwAHiNOPtBGGP802bY3C49j1sGGY2BS71R4IVQqOcW48 FGcg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=g6E6n6WSHpqBYhINgfrpgb+XQ+hF4asXbuhw1GT4JAo=; b=bYnYolqUzId16weaEIi+J1Fr6ZE75T5k3Ztk1qJTE9C9AVYnX9K2AehWBuFUvHfY3v 9WBopqBade11HngU8zWNKsjVNg0bPreLS+hGslV2O4rVa8t1myYcIL5hM0ueBNtiZKKe 7fYjx3WnsTlerUVYCWC6eM7slyL8ZJqeb9nXw5/xLDfkB8pJkm9jAG0uGCgf7/54OVKh hbI/SBYYArGdZweAyssBPIp6QN91K1oTVg5fk6tBQD80nAjI57f+Cc5+W9LDKnGmXGLx xciM7DKvridIKQ8iw8qjvVe5azT6hs/d4ciJcn+Vm8zkPObw7Vc5rL122gylIIi4w9Vr 0q8Q==
X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVQNCYdNS7fkChPD8FuKGojejklnN8oyY50vunsmPl87fNbZB4A jbGbwGhxiWe8eqmGebu1FSItGvG4lLh2PgtUJRA=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxH9lCtudhBUDMuw+psa9E5Lb5dPFKxAZ34SD6REkelsKVpaTKEkKdCZ6KFh3sMYgT31WdvTTDesKTVR7vl0vc=
X-Received: by 2002:ac8:7514:: with SMTP id u20mr27816251qtq.81.1556203673808; Thu, 25 Apr 2019 07:47:53 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <033d01d4f52f$c6f2dca0$54d895e0$@olddog.co.uk> <C7274EAB-7DDC-491F-9DD2-0CFFADB13CA9@cooperw.in> <72f00d0b-7ec6-ba6a-b17b-97879d457ae3@comcast.net> <CAKKJt-fOMMdM-mkbJaYpsH6XPCpatUkwZY-d_A+MaNa3nhaNDg@mail.gmail.com> <CABcZeBNdaWU4wwOK_MnWC5hOr7Lu3osmC_6_KKxB5fHuHVHyTw@mail.gmail.com> <23d54797-5c94-aa00-ec55-3f2c4fdfcfae@comcast.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20190424095017.13cdadc8@elandnews.com> <51068F13-E90F-42A2-8AE2-627D5E18B145@akamai.com> <20190424201939.GM3137@localhost> <6.2.5.6.2.20190424134823.0c9faf68@elandnews.com> <20190424211123.GO3137@localhost> <6.2.5.6.2.20190424144539.0cabcde0@elandnews.com> <20F28A58-4D1D-40D7-8513-2DA7A4A8778C@akamai.com> <07b301d4fb40$84b0b940$8e122bc0$@olddog.co.uk> <c5040945-c4a6-7bee-2a65-715341931712@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <c5040945-c4a6-7bee-2a65-715341931712@gmail.com>
From: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2019 10:47:42 -0400
Message-ID: <CAA=duU0qCx5okt_norQOB7GAJs0UZswS_6rZ5mshEu1KkSM_5w@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev
To: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
Cc: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "Salz, Rich" <rsalz@akamai.com>, S Moonesamy <sm+ietf@elandsys.com>, IETF Discussion <ietf@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000002cf2ef05875be786"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/2WyXEdClcR26JeV6joqE9bJdNe8>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2019 14:47:57 -0000
I agree with Stewart, I think a BOF is overkill for this particular short and focused draft. Even absent current AD sponsorship, discussion and refinement of the draft can continue on this list. If general community consensus around a future revision of the draft can be shown on the list (as usual, by the absence of continued commenting following a new revision), it may then be more difficult for the IESG to not find at least one member to sponsor the publication process, including IETF last call. Cheers, Andy On Thu, Apr 25, 2019 at 5:29 AM Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On 25/04/2019 09:26, Adrian Farrel wrote: > >>> It doesn't make sense to ask a person who lacks extensive travel > >>> resources to fly to Canada to hold a BoF about a short draft. > >> > >> I understand the situation, and having been in that place for years, am > empathetic. > >> > >> But the proposed alternative seems to be "take my draft as-is" > > > > That would certainly be a Bad Thing (TM). > > > > But why can't we operate through IETF business as usual? That is, debate > the content of the draft on the mailing list (whichever one is deemed > appropriate), make concrete proposals for change, update the draft until > concerns have been addressed (RFC7282), test consensus with a last call, > and move ahead to publication? > > > > Oh, I know why we can't do that: That approach requires an AD to sponsor > the draft, and no AD has stepped up. (Just recall that agreeing to sponsor > does not mean instant acceptance of the work and publication as an RFC, it > is the start of the process that might still need long years of debate on > the mailing list.) > > Given the amount of discussion, the "normal" process for something like > this would be for the IETF Chair to ask for an IESG volunteer to sponsor > the draft, and if one were not forthcoming to sponsor it themselves. > > Even if it was not to their personal liking all that is required is > studied neutrality on the part of the IESG member and a fair hearing > from all members of the IETF community. > > If it goes through due process, the result is the result, even if the > result is not to the taste of the IESG. > > > > > If (and this is perfectly possible) the problem statement is not obvious > to readers of the draft, the answer is surely not to have a BoF where the > proponents are asked to clarify the problem and scope: the answer would be > to write a short email saying "I read your draft and I find the scope and > problem statement unclear. Could you please write some more words to help > me understand it." If (equally possible) someone wants to address a > different problem or has a different view of what the scope should be, they > do not need a BoF to have that discussion, they can raise their aspirations > in an email. > > > > We do not need to hold a BoF every time anyone wants to suggest a small > change to IETF process. > > I would agree. > > - Stewart > >
- AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev S Moonesamy
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Alissa Cooper
- RE: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Adrian Farrel
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Aaron Falk
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Loganaden Velvindron
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev John C Klensin
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Brian E Carpenter
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev John C Klensin
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev John C Klensin
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Alissa Cooper
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Alissa Cooper
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Michael StJohns
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Michael StJohns
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev S Moonesamy
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev S Moonesamy
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Scott O. Bradner
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev S Moonesamy
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev John C Klensin
- Gaming email [was: AD Sponsorship of draft-moones… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Gaming email [was: AD Sponsorship of draft-mo… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Gaming email [was: AD Sponsorship of draft-mo… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev S Moonesamy
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Salz, Rich
- Recall petitions as an attack vector (was: Re: AD… John C Klensin
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Eric Rescorla
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Michael StJohns
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Keith Moore
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Salz, Rich
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Kathleen Moriarty
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev S Moonesamy
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Salz, Rich
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Nico Williams
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Andrew G. Malis
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev S Moonesamy
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Nico Williams
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Nico Williams
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Dave Taht
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Eric Rescorla
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Eliot Lear
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Salz, Rich
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev S Moonesamy
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Salz, Rich
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Joel M. Halpern
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Nico Williams
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Brian E Carpenter
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Keith Moore
- RE: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Adrian Farrel
- RE: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Adrian Farrel
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Stewart Bryant
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Andrew G. Malis
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Nico Williams
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Stewart Bryant
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Nico Williams
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Stewart Bryant
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Nico Williams
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev John C Klensin
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Nico Williams
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Michael StJohns
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev John C Klensin
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Andrew G. Malis
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Andrew Sullivan
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Alissa Cooper
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Alissa Cooper
- RE: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Adrian Farrel
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Michael StJohns
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev 'Andrew Sullivan'
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev S Moonesamy
- RE: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Adrian Farrel
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev S Moonesamy
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Suresh Krishnan
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev S Moonesamy
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev S Moonesamy
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Eric Rescorla
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev S Moonesamy
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Eric Rescorla
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev S Moonesamy
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Brian E Carpenter
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev John C Klensin
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Suresh Krishnan
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev S Moonesamy
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Stephen Farrell
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev John C Klensin
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev S Moonesamy
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev S Moonesamy
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Pete Resnick
- Re: AD Sponsorship of draft-moonesamy-recall-rev Theodore Ts'o
- Re: [Eligibility-discuss] AD Sponsorship of draft… John C Klensin
- Re: [Eligibility-discuss] AD Sponsorship of draft… Loganaden Velvindron
- Re: [Eligibility-discuss] AD Sponsorship of draft… Iyedi Goma
- Re: [Eligibility-discuss] AD Sponsorship of draft… John C Klensin
- Remote participant fees (was : Re: [Eligibility-d… John C Klensin
- Re: [Eligibility-discuss] AD Sponsorship of draft… Abdussalam Baryun
- Re: [Eligibility-discuss] AD Sponsorship of draft… Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: [Eligibility-discuss] AD Sponsorship of draft… Keith Moore
- Re: [Eligibility-discuss] AD Sponsorship of draft… Pete Resnick
- Re: [Eligibility-discuss] AD Sponsorship of draft… John C Klensin
- Re: [Eligibility-discuss] AD Sponsorship of draft… Abdussalam Baryun
- Re: [Eligibility-discuss] AD Sponsorship of draft… Michael StJohns
- ietf meeting fees Keith Moore
- Re: ietf meeting fees Michael StJohns
- Re: ietf meeting fees Brian E Carpenter
- Re: ietf meeting fees Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: ietf meeting fees Bob Hinden
- Re: ietf meeting fees Michael Richardson
- Re: ietf meeting fees John C Klensin
- Re: ietf meeting fees Andrew Sullivan
- Re: ietf meeting fees Livingood, Jason
- Re: ietf meeting fees George Michaelson
- Re: ietf meeting fees Abdussalam Baryun