Re: privacy and IETF meetings in US
John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com> Fri, 07 June 2019 16:14 UTC
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Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2019 12:14:35 -0400
From: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>
To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet=40consulintel.es@dmarc.ietf.org>, IETF <ietf@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: privacy and IETF meetings in US
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--On Friday, June 7, 2019 17:00 +0200 JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet=40consulintel.es@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > Hi, > > If I got it correctly, the new US regulation will force to > provide information about social media accounts by those > requesting a VISA. Not sure if this will apply also for the > ESTA. > > If this is correct, and considering that we have planned > IETF111, July 2021, in San Francisco, despite how much > personally I like that city, should we cancel that meeting and > start looking for an alternative venue? > > Or we don't care about IETF participants privacy rights at all > and how much subjective the immigration authorities judgment > of our activity in social networks may become? Jordi, While I'm sympathetic to your concern, two observations may be relevant: (1) Many of us believe it is reasonable to hope that the US elections in November 2020 will result in changes in the US policy on these matters [1]. While I hope that the Secretariat and the IETF LLC will have contingency plans for possible reactions to events that might interfere with any planned meeting (including, e.g., the possibility of the political situation in Thailand exploding in the months before IETF 106, I can't see it as being in the IETF's interest or that of its participants to start canceling meetings now on the basis of policies that might (or might not) be in effect significantly over two year's hence. (2) I see a huge difference between the question of how we react to a possible policy of some government's regulations about visa applicants and "we don't care about IETF participants privacy rights at all". Trying to present that as a binary choice is, I believe, a type of hyperbole that does not help us have careful and nuanced discussions. best, john [1] I haven't read (or even seen) the actual regulations and requirements, only the same news-article reports that you have presumably seen. I am not even sure that final regulations or policies have been issued, noting that the normally-authoritative information at https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/tourism-visit/visitor.html does not appear to have been updated. We have no way to know how the State Department, other parts of the Administration, or the Congress start reacting to this particular idea once, e.g., the UA tourist industry notices the effect of this new plan in both the context of reducing visa applications and that of further slowdowns in visa application processing at consulates. That is especially important given the number of policies this Administration has announced and then changed its mind about (or claimed it never announced) within a relatively short period. IANAL, much less a US Immigration Lawyer and I assume you are not either. Let's not overreact, go off half-cocked, and start canceling meetings, if only because doing so plays into the hands of those who appear to prefer that no foreigner ever come to the US and US Citizens never travel abroad.
- Re: privacy and IETF meetings in US JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- privacy and IETF meetings in US JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: privacy and IETF meetings in US Ole Jacobsen
- Re: privacy and IETF meetings in US John C Klensin
- Re: privacy and IETF meetings in US Ole Jacobsen
- Re: privacy and IETF meetings in US JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- RE: privacy and IETF meetings in US Eric Gray
- Re: privacy and IETF meetings in US Melinda Shore
- Re: privacy and IETF meetings in US Paul Wouters
- Re: privacy and IETF meetings in US John C Klensin
- Re: privacy and IETF meetings in US JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: privacy and IETF meetings in US Livingood, Jason
- Re: privacy and IETF meetings in US Michael Richardson
- Re: privacy and IETF meetings in US Michael Richardson
- Re: privacy and IETF meetings in US Nico Williams
- Re: privacy and IETF meetings in US JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: privacy and IETF meetings in US Michael Richardson
- Re: privacy and IETF meetings in US Michael Richardson
- Re: privacy and IETF meetings in US Christian Huitema
- Re: privacy and IETF meetings in US Nico Williams
- Re: privacy and IETF meetings in US Livingood, Jason
- Re: privacy and IETF meetings in US Scott Weeks
- Re: privacy and IETF meetings in US Fernando Gont
- Re: privacy and IETF meetings in US Nico Williams
- Re: privacy and IETF meetings in US Eliot Lear