Re: Hum theatre
Phillip Hallam-Baker <hallam@gmail.com> Thu, 07 November 2013 17:48 UTC
Return-Path: <hallam@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CE4E11E81E6 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 7 Nov 2013 09:48:54 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.494
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.494 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.105, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id o-T4Og8LS+SU for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 7 Nov 2013 09:48:53 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-la0-x235.google.com (mail-la0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c03::235]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D465411E818D for <ietf@ietf.org>; Thu, 7 Nov 2013 09:48:34 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-la0-f53.google.com with SMTP id eh20so714234lab.26 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Thu, 07 Nov 2013 09:48:33 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=dOCDgKbEGM99a9x/xHyr62vg684VsryIM9IvPvlWqnM=; b=dWYridWaaAfBtyxaBPBSPSNPtB3m4/woyU6ixJQCKsZc0FE7fCI3BnMi79cNGdkPFi xkf0PHRFSeS6Xykj8iDs4/aSzJ668zCleK4AoOYQOEkvWuMLv/gzwPhV0WCG2s3VQudz j5xRgrZjit++v+VRDxC6SA5Lq1znfeB2tCClE4vsLffngsDv37uVM8o/qwzT6l+ZWyS2 oldJgVsY6UEdSpL2fXfJHTlY8gUE1GCjanq2yvewniPf0v/LCX9Tme1MqwL4CvstSLeh PqhBr+KJM13+juTIph05XMh0uPuFLYizsnD4Le0E4R6RXAbcbNIkuMWobz18yYJLmFNB xE4Q==
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.152.244.170 with SMTP id xh10mr1100241lac.15.1383846513816; Thu, 07 Nov 2013 09:48:33 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.112.46.98 with HTTP; Thu, 7 Nov 2013 09:48:33 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <3B8251D7-23C4-413F-90B0-DB6EEC6ACF1C@tzi.org>
References: <527AF986.4090504@dcrocker.net> <CAHBU6iuDXQok_QRZe7BL__Vmkn447vUCSViDgrVkaedKAHcnfw@mail.gmail.com> <m2bo1w29zw.wl%randy@psg.com> <527B294E.20406@gmail.com> <E0485FA4-7F1A-4C78-B160-27C981B05DD4@cisco.com> <3B8251D7-23C4-413F-90B0-DB6EEC6ACF1C@tzi.org>
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2013 12:48:33 -0500
Message-ID: <CAMm+Lwghyi19muapvSwuLzczmfi-XrmoPHXw=GTDiEyrrJ80GA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Hum theatre
From: Phillip Hallam-Baker <hallam@gmail.com>
To: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1134b65ee1395904ea99df4b"
Cc: "Klaas Wierenga (kwiereng)" <kwiereng@cisco.com>, IETF Discussion <ietf@ietf.org>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2013 17:48:54 -0000
The sentiment is unanimous Opinion on how to act on that sentiment remains divided. One of the reasons that opinion on how to act is divided is that the discussion of TLS everywhere is focused on the value TLS is designed to bring to secure Internet protocols rather than the total value proposition of TLS which was always intended to be wider. The point of VeriSign Class 3 and later Organization Validation criteria and the Extended Validation criteria is to establish ACCOUNTABILITY. The authentication is a means to that end and the encryption is a nice byproduct. People have been using TLS with no accountability but authentication. Which was only bad because the browsers didn't differentiate between the two until Extended Validation was deployed. Using crypto is not a problem, telling people that they are safe when they are not is the problem. At the moment the IETF does not use metrics to determine how difficult it would be for an attacker to break a system. This is my effort in the area: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hallambaker-prismproof-trust-00
- Re: Hum theatre Francis Dupont
- Re: Hum theatre Ted Lemon
- Hum theatre Dave Crocker
- Re: Hum theatre Yoav Nir
- Re: Hum theatre Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Hum theatre Tim Bray
- Re: Hum theatre Randy Bush
- Hum theatre Abdussalam Baryun
- Re: Hum theatre Jorge Amodio
- Re: Hum theatre Larry Masinter
- Re: Hum theatre Ralph Droms
- Re: Hum theatre Fred Baker (fred)
- Re: Hum theatre Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Hum theatre Pete Resnick
- Re: Hum theatre Stefan Winter
- Re: Hum theatre Martin J. Dürst
- Re: Hum theatre Fred Baker (fred)
- Re: Hum theatre Fred Baker (fred)
- Re: Hum theatre Stefan Winter
- Re: Hum theatre Richard Barnes
- Re: Hum theatre Christian de Larrinaga
- Re: Hum theatre Arturo Servin
- Re: Hum theatre Dave Crocker
- Re: Hum theatre Scott Brim
- Re: Hum theatre Randy Bush
- Re: Hum theatre Bob Hinden
- Re: Hum theatre Tim Bray
- Re: Hum theatre Randy Bush
- Re: Hum theatre Paul Hoffman
- Re: Hum theatre Scott Brim
- Re: Hum theatre Klaas Wierenga (kwiereng)
- Re: Hum theatre Klaas Wierenga (kwiereng)
- Re: Hum theatre Carsten Bormann
- Re: Hum theatre Dave Crocker
- Re: Hum theatre Pete Resnick
- Re: Hum theatre Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Hum theatre Jari Arkko
- Re: Hum theatre Jari Arkko
- Re: Hum theatre Richard Barnes
- Re: Hum theatre Klaas Wierenga (kwiereng)
- Re: Hum theatre Pete Resnick
- Re: Hum theatre Dave Cridland
- Re: Hum theatre Ted Lemon
- Re: Hum theatre Dave Crocker
- Re: Hum theatre Andrew Sullivan
- Re: Hum theatre Jorge Amodio