Re: Globally Unique Link Local Addresses (Re: about violation of standards)
Mark Andrews <marka@isc.org> Wed, 24 April 2019 06:04 UTC
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Subject: Re: Globally Unique Link Local Addresses (Re: about violation of standards)
From: Mark Andrews <marka@isc.org>
In-Reply-To: <CAO42Z2wimfJexfUfs+mfo6Cs8simv9XyTqCaU49VDaSqBG-BxQ@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 16:04:46 +1000
Cc: 神明達哉 <jinmei@wide.ad.jp>, Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com>, "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com>, 6man WG <ipv6@ietf.org>, Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>
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References: <bb7f7606-2adf-e669-8bcd-e41f17800782@gmail.com> <CAJE_bqd9frqX5-yeVPj8MYXpZ4737HqK1gmfD9cQV3A-Ea5HrQ@mail.gmail.com> <6bd5db47-408a-727e-5c13-f34a3465f986@si6networks.com> <CAJE_bqfTLqRbLp4fLu2ASZuZ+4G5c2G+RXkO92kXfLgPTqBnng@mail.gmail.com> <EEF00EA7-2AAF-403F-99AD-1D53ED18E8B3@cisco.com> <47631828-121F-402D-8165-969684C1101B@employees.org> <CAO42Z2wbq=8f6FfR7DoOOFrY7B5puxS26Dk+SsM71Pk7y03ipQ@mail.gmail.com> <afa6e0e2-0a31-53f0-0f41-5e24c81405da@gmail.com> <CAO42Z2zoQtAqzT+v2XYequuWysrLo+WOG8Ou=asRMakQHuS-Pg@mail.gmail.com> <CAJE_bqcJZxWd1ZH8u0rqK5PfwNK9qqmw9O-7=u6Tpu_UTF7-Aw@mail.gmail.com> <CAO42Z2wimfJexfUfs+mfo6Cs8simv9XyTqCaU49VDaSqBG-BxQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com>
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getaddrinfo() does in most implementations as it returns a pointer to a struct sockaddr_in6 which have a sin6_scope_id field. inet_pton() deals with the part to the left of the % symbol. From various getaddrinfo man pages. MacOS: This implementation of getaddrinfo() allows numeric IPv6 address notation with scope identifier, as documented in section 11 of RFC 4007. By appending the percent character and scope identifier to addresses, one can fill the sin6_scope_id field for addresses. This would make manage- ment of scoped addresses easier and allows cut-and-paste input of scoped addresses. At this moment the code supports only link-local addresses with the for- mat. The scope identifier is hardcoded to the name of the hardware interface associated with the link (such as ne0). An example is ``fe80::1%ne0'', which means ``fe80::1 on the link associated with the ne0 interface''. The current implementation assumes a one-to-one relationship between the interface and link, which is not necessarily true from the specification. Linux: Notes getaddrinfo() supports the address%scope-id notation for specifying the IPv6 scope-ID. Mark > On 24 Apr 2019, at 3:12 pm, Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Wed., 24 Apr. 2019, 14:01 神明達哉, <jinmei@wide.ad.jp> wrote: > At Wed, 24 Apr 2019 13:28:48 +1000, > Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com> wrote: > > > However, the drawback of using LL addresses is that each application > > has to be written to specifically handle them viasin6_scope_id. > > This is not entirely accurate. Section 11 of RFC 4007 exists exactly > for this purpose. And, in fact, applications like ssh can perfectly > work for a link-local destination even on a multi-link host even if > the application (ssh client) doesn't do anything special for > link-local address: > > % ssh fe80::1%lo0 'echo ok' > ok > > > So what Sockets API function converts "fe80::1%lo0" into a populated sockaddr_in6 structure including sin6_scope_id? > > inet_pton() only deals with and returns addresses, so it seems you have to write additional special case code that handles the % zone suffix. > > > It's true that *some* applications may still need to handle link-local > addresses as a special case, though. > > > I understand that one of the motivations for Link-Local addressing was > > the "dentist's office" scenario i.e. non-technical, plug and play, "it > > just works" networking. Having to have specially adapted applications > > to suit that that scenario is pretty contradictory to that goal. > > I wouldn't expect a dentist to type in a textual link-local address > (or for that matter, perhaps any textual IPv6 address) anyway. > > So my thoughts have been that things like MDNS would also return the zone information for a LL address to the resolver, although I haven't looked into whether it does or not. > > I still see that it would be simpler if interface or zone information was effectively embedded in the LL address, as it is in GUA and ULA addresses, using the, transparent to the application, node's route table to resolve and determine the ingress/egress network link interface. > > > In > this context it's more about a higher level problem than > scope-awareness of the application. It would have to use some kind of > zero-config service discovery library with sophisticated user > interface. That "library" may have to be aware of the concept of > scoped addresses more explicitly, but the application would be more > likely to be agnostic about it. > > -- > JINMEI, Tatuya > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka@isc.org
- Re: about violation of standards Kerry Lynn
- about violation of standards Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: about violation of standards Suresh Krishnan
- Re: about violation of standards Kerry Lynn
- Re: about violation of standards Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: about violation of standards Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: about violation of standards Kerry Lynn
- Re: about violation of standards Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: about violation of standards 神明達哉
- Re: about violation of standards Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: about violation of standards Mark Smith
- Re: about violation of standards Fernando Gont
- Re: about violation of standards 神明達哉
- Re: about violation of standards Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- encoding link ID in link-local addrs (Re: about v… 神明達哉
- Re: encoding link ID in link-local addrs (Re: abo… 神明達哉
- Re: encoding link ID in link-local addrs (Re: abo… Gyan Mishra
- Re: encoding link ID in link-local addrs (Re: abo… Gyan Mishra
- Re: about violation of standards Yucel Guven
- Re: about violation of standards 神明達哉
- Re: about violation of standards Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: about violation of standards Nick Hilliard
- Re: about violation of standards Gyan Mishra
- Re: about violation of standards Gyan Mishra
- Re: about violation of standards Gyan Mishra
- Re: about violation of standards Gyan Mishra
- Re: about violation of standards Ole Troan
- Globally Unique Link Local Addresses (Re: about v… Mark Smith
- Re: Globally Unique Link Local Addresses (Re: abo… Mark Smith
- RE: about violation of standards Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: about violation of standards Ole Troan
- Re: Globally Unique Link Local Addresses (Re: abo… Philip Homburg
- Re: Globally Unique Link Local Addresses (Re: abo… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: about violation of standards Brian E Carpenter
- Re: about violation of standards Gyan Mishra
- Re: Globally Unique Link Local Addresses (Re: abo… Mark Smith
- Re: Globally Unique Link Local Addresses (Re: abo… Gyan Mishra
- Re: Globally Unique Link Local Addresses (Re: abo… 神明達哉
- Re: about violation of standards Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: Globally Unique Link Local Addresses (Re: abo… Mark Smith
- Re: Globally Unique Link Local Addresses (Re: abo… Mark Andrews
- Re: Globally Unique Link Local Addresses (Re: abo… Mark Smith
- Re: about violation of standards - security matte… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: encoding link ID in link-local addrs (Re: abo… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: about violation of standards - fe80::1/128 Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: about violation of standards Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: about violation of standards Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: about violation of standards Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: encoding link ID in link-local addrs (Re: abo… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: about violation of standards - fe80::1/128 神明達哉
- Re: encoding link ID in link-local addrs (Re: abo… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: encoding link ID in link-local addrs (Re: abo… Ole Troan
- Re: about violation of standards Nick Hilliard
- Re: about violation of standards Yucel Guven
- Re: Globally Unique Link Local Addresses (Re: abo… 神明達哉
- Re: Globally Unique Link Local Addresses (Re: abo… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: encoding link ID in link-local addrs (Re: abo… 神明達哉
- Re: about violation of standards Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: encoding link ID in link-local addrs (Re: abo… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: encoding link ID in link-local addrs (Re: abo… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Globally Unique Link Local Addresses (Re: abo… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: encoding link ID in link-local addrs (Re: abo… Philip Homburg
- Re: encoding link ID in link-local addrs (Re: abo… Ole Troan
- Re: encoding link ID in link-local addrs (Re: abo… Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)
- Re: about violation of standards Yucel Guven
- Re: encoding link ID in link-local addrs (Re: abo… 神明達哉
- Re: Globally Unique Link Local Addresses (Re: abo… Mark Andrews
- Re: Globally Unique Link Local Addresses (Re: abo… Mark Smith
- Re: about violation of standards - fe80::1/128 Gyan Mishra
- Re: encoding link ID in link-local addrs (Re: abo… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Globally Unique Link Local Addresses (Re: abo… Mark Smith
- Re: about violation of standards - fe80::1/128 Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: Globally Unique Link Local Addresses (Re: abo… Mark Andrews
- Re: encoding Subnet ID in link-local addrs (Re: a… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: disagreement on which OS should change Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: about violation of standards Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: easy to remember addresses and /etc/hosts and… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: encoding Subnet ID in link-local addrs - prob… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: easy to remember addresses and /etc/hosts and… Mark Smith
- Re: easy to remember addresses and /etc/hosts and… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: easy to remember addresses and /etc/hosts and… Mark Smith
- Re: easy to remember addresses and /etc/hosts and… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: about violation of standards Yucel Guven
- Re: easy to remember addresses and /etc/hosts and… Kerry Lynn
- RE: encoding Subnet ID in link-local addrs (Re: a… Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)
- Re: about violation of standards Erik Kline
- RE: encoding Subnet ID in link-local addrs (Re: a… Manfredi (US), Albert E
- Re: Globally Unique Link Local Addresses (Re: abo… Gyan Mishra
- Reinventing Site-Locals (Re: easy to remember add… Mark Smith
- Re: Reinventing Site-Locals (Re: easy to remember… Mark Smith
- Re: Reinventing Site-Locals (Re: easy to remember… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: disagreement on which OS should change Gyan Mishra
- Re: about violation of standards Fernando Gont
- Re: disagreement on which OS should change Brian Carpenter
- Re: disagreement on which OS should change Ole Troan
- Re: disagreement on which OS should change Fernando Gont
- Re: disagreement on which OS should change Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: easy to remember addresses and /etc/hosts and… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: encoding Subnet ID in link-local addrs (Re: a… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: disagreement on which OS should change Gyan Mishra
- Re: disagreement on which OS should change 神明達哉
- Re: disagreement on which OS should change Bob Hinden
- Re: disagreement on which OS should change Gyan Mishra
- Re: encoding Subnet ID in link-local addrs (Re: a… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: disagreement on which OS should change Bob Hinden
- Re: Reinventing Site-Locals Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: disagreement on which OS should change Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: disagreement on which OS should change Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: disagreement on which OS should change Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: disagreement on which OS should change Tim Chown
- Re: disagreement on which OS should change Bob Hinden
- Wireless ND was: about violation of standards Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: Wireless ND was: about violation of standards Philip Homburg
- Re: Wireless ND was: about violation of standards Ole Troan
- RE: Wireless ND was: about violation of standards Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- RE: Wireless ND was: about violation of standards Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: Wireless ND was: about violation of standards Ole Troan
- RE: Wireless ND was: about violation of standards Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: Wireless ND was: about violation of standards Philip Homburg
- RE: encoding Subnet ID in link-local addrs (Re: a… Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)
- Re: encoding Subnet ID in link-local addrs (Re: a… Alexandre Petrescu
- RE: encoding Subnet ID in link-local addrs (Re: a… Mudric, Dusan (Dusan)
- Re: encoding Subnet ID in link-local addrs (Re: a… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: about violation of standards Erik Kline
- Re: about violation of standards Erik Kline