Re: [ipwave] RFC8902 - TLS with ITS Certificates, EXPERIMENTAL, and the one PKI and one Internet

William Whyte <wwhyte@qti.qualcomm.com> Mon, 26 April 2021 14:25 UTC

Return-Path: <wwhyte@qti.qualcomm.com>
X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B6D93A2189 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 26 Apr 2021 07:25:28 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.999
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=qti.qualcomm.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fIiLFtmv6KvQ for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 26 Apr 2021 07:25:23 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from esa.hc3962-90.iphmx.com (esa.hc3962-90.iphmx.com [216.71.140.77]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 50F213A2186 for <its@ietf.org>; Mon, 26 Apr 2021 07:25:22 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qti.qualcomm.com; i=@qti.qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qccesdkim1; t=1619447123; x=1620051923; h=from:to:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: mime-version:subject; bh=wIzZEkawBwtFax98aLjnKHpCKRk3mllwuC7Usl58qhw=; b=LmrZ/WnmU7RT72regSzKsv7g7n62PECEkCcDcDyvOw7aUbaP4oBSJKCs ElV/FTxBpOHrdgvp7IBdbOMvT+XMKCwmTYsvm1UNYZRHT9D1w43+1H2n4 e6DZsSC7g36df1qN5daAKnu+tWEFajOY1JBAESHXPQYEQyY6fb+2J1neQ U=;
IronPort-SDR: GasatlI4ApCI/4tM8kVgpTyD7hBZqVAFqe7NB9uzyfvp3El8K15/WCBAbdfnWKecWubcsk03YZ QgQ3dIYu6fSZN6PkFLbnhXYcWYcPt/9iSPzUOneYBnpS4wOh2KUcd8qWwkJtkh1wdN3EmCsW00 7grttKAs6R2cOpSrFMXvA2oavIgRSMidRRM0ncxtH7aOHEzwdCSmDEk0WBnIXdeijcDBW192Uk 9IlSaP97KhXKiQ0drsHoXgy9I+1miJbZBWNuYAluhC4NWlMTqry0o6+lUmx8UC5n7JHWX/FAGK yYU=
X-IronPort-RemoteIP: 104.47.70.106
X-IronPort-MID: 22795
X-IronPort-Reputation: None
X-IronPort-Listener: OutgoingMail
X-IronPort-SenderGroup: RELAY_O365
X-IronPort-MailFlowPolicy: $RELAYED
Thread-Topic: Re: [ipwave] RFC8902 - TLS with ITS Certificates, EXPERIMENTAL, and the one PKI and one Internet
Received: from mail-bn7nam10lp2106.outbound.protection.outlook.com (HELO NAM10-BN7-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com) ([104.47.70.106]) by ob1.hc3962-90.iphmx.com with ESMTP/TLS/ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 26 Apr 2021 14:25:20 +0000
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=iQiOzcgyQ6Okn2BIRyMFlkz8KlHdYSeEABf9XWme3H5p5/ke1DZFoDpp/5caZ18vYfUOkm4dtsC+SVSzEtF2y1OjT9+8U3tV8FGGwZmhSPynUFVKKuVC0ZF1Lsu2DBH9+4YLr2JY6Yefc6IdRS/JDVkn63wCjeLQxT4gnm44HM2R0Sgj3Fa5W7B1BUWkDogMdqffGwXDe/48eMz6Crr9ijHzvFOPZVqZRtDlpM3Wx/D7xbfnhgXVI5HxoNmskINj6YyHxr/HocQlSpk6UUYUVFQKlZZfiuqeWoZ29/Zs3ktwO+aC0e6dMUXzi4Gy23HPTq34lYSSvhxhuz01HRIAMg==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=wIzZEkawBwtFax98aLjnKHpCKRk3mllwuC7Usl58qhw=; b=HX9Evsn2dBef5T0oeetvH8Ntc7VBQYC9UuRUuPbSmQZaVz7svISvdvu6n8pt9p1/dzEjK6XSmLsAqALN11O5Sqv9k+4YFrVm4q7if3wPWttJY/YKYq5OmeEE8jqJetiBNZnWaNbxywrwq5p7bdbWAlx9503ww6DnghRVcFs4hjDftqdF/Inc+Xw+gvbtr1RHnf9pDSwy6sx8eb66gSObeLaUXKxCmRxDp29jDm+rqaLrvhl3WDNEO/aFSUTZ6yDdqnlxA9zEbEHaj35kPE285cpOVa9n/g8TXIAbepe5gTgAKbZePZc1mTsUcc7lI3qpQ+/12VdbGymAUVtoIDvZvw==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=qti.qualcomm.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=qti.qualcomm.com; dkim=pass header.d=qti.qualcomm.com; arc=none
Received: from MN2PR02MB6591.namprd02.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:15f::17) by BL0PR02MB6482.namprd02.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:1ce::15) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4065.21; Mon, 26 Apr 2021 14:25:18 +0000
Received: from MN2PR02MB6591.namprd02.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::8178:7533:16e:f843]) by MN2PR02MB6591.namprd02.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::8178:7533:16e:f843%7]) with mapi id 15.20.4065.026; Mon, 26 Apr 2021 14:25:18 +0000
From: William Whyte <wwhyte@qti.qualcomm.com>
To: Mounira MSAHLI <msahli1717@gmail.com>, Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>, "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org>
Thread-Index: AQHXMeMhko1+RkzEsUCq4zk+NPGTeKq2C7cAgAEElRaABiFYgIADifKQgAE/woCAAxayAIAB1UwAgAAEnLA=
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2021 14:25:18 +0000
Message-ID: <MN2PR02MB659123EFA17E7C6E7E4C969DF2429@MN2PR02MB6591.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
References: <acc0f475-7f7b-bfbe-1099-913f0cef4de6@gmail.com> <01d601d731e3$140e2ed0$3c2a8c70$@eurecom.fr> <0600020f-b6ca-4d6d-2499-817586bc3548@gmail.com> <CAMEeBw9eaPBRT26BqqmXdEpqFzSTGt8w46wmexfg7ax4aRP-pQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAA2OGZCntE+FUtzKwxrsH7i_q70jjZuPoUjRG7cYmEVRHFJU8g@mail.gmail.com> <19dce5f5-8dca-55c2-4d46-bb83046562ab@gmail.com> <CAA2OGZDzWjQkSkn7W3bNC-w8ANk3Do-OdUwpZn9SK3na9afRpA@mail.gmail.com> <CAA2OGZAt+8araN_X_hMdZSpEaNmEZbrXUag8uhR5HALDgUqP4w@mail.gmail.com> <fd9e3403-dfa9-40c1-e6e9-785fef2c212a@gmail.com> <CAA2OGZBVjY=kJp7a3zcV7jXXqnAB5rNpLJ=SGaJ4aDxD-wTS1A@mail.gmail.com> <CAA2OGZDG2TKOGzGr8snayfLjUYf5eNXyd_JWae9O2AFK=xJu1w@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAA2OGZDG2TKOGzGr8snayfLjUYf5eNXyd_JWae9O2AFK=xJu1w@mail.gmail.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
authentication-results: gmail.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none; gmail.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=qti.qualcomm.com;
x-originating-ip: [173.48.177.63]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 35c2dc87-907f-4362-b4e0-08d908bf1e2d
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BL0PR02MB6482:
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <BL0PR02MB6482426382E75ED4FFA6D9C3F2429@BL0PR02MB6482.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:7691;
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:MN2PR02MB6591.namprd02.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(4636009)(376002)(346002)(39860400002)(366004)(136003)(396003)(6506007)(5660300002)(52536014)(8936002)(53546011)(8676002)(76116006)(66476007)(66946007)(2906002)(186003)(71200400001)(33656002)(7696005)(86362001)(66556008)(66446008)(64756008)(316002)(110136005)(55016002)(26005)(9686003)(66574015)(38100700002)(478600001)(122000001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102;
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: =?utf-8?B?NnpseVZCSFhpMU9wcnFUdkFuYy9HcTA1eFhIYUFKZW1BeUpZNjkvcm8vdUh3?= =?utf-8?B?YjZKR1dOOTVGbEZ1Ukp5djR5RklZNXplclJ5N3U3WTYxTmNoL2pNdEo5bXlr?= =?utf-8?B?MmhBeGtScjNqMlBJdE5aVUM2WjcveWViWlludjRzSnl1bUNPdDJkbktOQ2th?= =?utf-8?B?L1FFZ09DY1lnNXg3dFVtc0N2Nm1HRXhFbzg2Y0ordndLUldHclJOT2FwNHQx?= =?utf-8?B?c0RxbHJOWlBaK2FmSjRpZjZSL09Da3Zib3F5ZzBNajhHb3NVYkRYVWxNMHc2?= =?utf-8?B?TzJzTzZtNTB0dkVUR0xWOEl1V2lQclV4ZERibFdxai9SWXRYY3BZb1FUTkFX?= =?utf-8?B?bU1LVzhjamRacE52ZnNpcU9TRzh5bmxzdUFaai9jSWRSRkVFdkFmL1FwOXRM?= =?utf-8?B?YzRxUHdiejlzdnB0bEtGZ3JpbkgwYkNBbEY4TnkrbkJKWi9LNzVZYTRIQ0xu?= =?utf-8?B?TVgzSXY1TnlBVEE1WGdGUk96RmRhc1l3aC92Uy8zWUVOUGRNMkdTS05FaFpX?= =?utf-8?B?QkxRSklGd3hkUmV0cGZXRGF3NzZnRW54MHgwL2NhRm05dW04NjFrK2tSMWFG?= =?utf-8?B?MERVckxnc2E2ZmRZVVpkSXQvWThyZDBtZEcvU1NHU2hMcWF4QlJMNmp0OVMx?= =?utf-8?B?SkQyYTk4Nk1nYkxwc09keHk5dWpJazFZdmFyRHFzTUpCWlZORjFwd0Faa0s5?= =?utf-8?B?VEFFNnRYczhRZUJQTVBaV3llRTVCKzhBTngvbXdiUno4SHV0aG1ETHBJOVpO?= =?utf-8?B?Q3Y0RGdIeDI4RWdNWEg5WldLRXVNZmlrdHQwNmlacXBFWXJ1ODRpaUd6YVFK?= =?utf-8?B?UnRQcldYY1RES0VVMGZBS3ZvYXVVNlNpOVhZbGlPUDdNNVEySzJQRVc4dGE5?= =?utf-8?B?RkZlSzZ2SkNDM3B3Vy9DVDc5djc4K0NXUG0rUjZlKzN5Q3RVWFNUbGFFbEcw?= =?utf-8?B?K0JEY21Qam5YSHBZOThUUFZ4eCtzSk5BemlaNEhONWdyTVRpbjFKUEJ4OWla?= =?utf-8?B?UU1ObjRGMUdWZ3NvdjBGY3RGQmtMWmF0SGs2aWJVVzVodk4rc2FEUHhSZitn?= =?utf-8?B?eURSR0diWEcrMVBLSFVBRU1QQktTdGdYZmlUQm40bk5VczIwOFNMM0FqYThQ?= =?utf-8?B?YjY1c1B3RkpITlViQXRTNVR1dmV5bjBQRjA0VjVYaE56WXB6aGZzckUyZzJv?= =?utf-8?B?RytyYVlaeWwvZXdYWkxaS3JERkV0RzJ1bFZNY0doc1hwZGkvSHZOY3hYSGFy?= =?utf-8?B?a0hCNnRkUDZoN2Rvbm01MlBURWx2NjNqdFRPaGJJZjRnKzY4dkZ5MUNPMWdG?= =?utf-8?B?WTNLVHB1WEZxT0dVeU5LSE9QaUgrcEowVjcrODczQW1LN1IvV3VsV201bmMv?= =?utf-8?B?R3A5WGpvVWNVMXRoT1YyVlArMTVqSHRxM0NEK3hZZE41QnAwb2pUa1d3SGVv?= =?utf-8?B?eVBvaGZQaENpem5QVURvUlFpa2pXcGYxSGxuTGlBUEVuWDJ1bEE3UjI0dVVN?= =?utf-8?B?cUxnaGhkSVo1M1FocyttQ3VTUkRvTk10K0ZoZ2YxdFlYZGgvSlVLRlkySU0w?= =?utf-8?B?ay9LY2hPQm9zMVd4TTBWOSt2RDVqS0ZWT2pxS3NmQklLMHRtWEE0Q3U3c1pL?= =?utf-8?B?TER4SERDVGZ0N2tJYmQ5OUZiSmhiTVpxMmZDMGxIUkNKaXdabGQ0bkdvZnpo?= =?utf-8?B?dzd5N1UzT21JZ1dIam9aYnFteDhGOThTUkVTYmloRXBHaDUwRGF5dHZLTHhC?= =?utf-8?Q?J4fSPDBTNehzQxs9LwvoAQ7cw8qNaRA8axgJeMx?=
x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_MN2PR02MB659123EFA17E7C6E7E4C969DF2429MN2PR02MB6591namp_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: qti.qualcomm.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: MN2PR02MB6591.namprd02.prod.outlook.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 35c2dc87-907f-4362-b4e0-08d908bf1e2d
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 26 Apr 2021 14:25:18.6249 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 98e9ba89-e1a1-4e38-9007-8bdabc25de1d
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: tPrPbdq/Mdx15Ynk6bNGIern8efRNLia2tBv91JCRnNPHve5hgRCojtVot9wJAoy3n+eWAI4y45Scb3wn4mgfw==
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BL0PR02MB6482
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/Y0jY8GBUvBnUaxspdQ07Jo7jyi0>
Subject: Re: [ipwave] RFC8902 - TLS with ITS Certificates, EXPERIMENTAL, and the one PKI and one Internet
X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/>
List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2021 14:25:28 -0000

>> If your conclusion is that « this RFC is not really relevant to ITS", this is hard to agree with because the large deployment of C-ITS. As mentioned by William before, ITS deployments across the US, Europe and Australia are currently using 1609.2 certificates.

Also, ISO 21177 references and builds on RFC 8902, and 21177 is in turn referenced by a number of SAE ITS standards in the US.

William

From: its <its-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Mounira MSAHLI
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2021 10:08 AM
To: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>om>; its@ietf.org
Subject: [EXT] Re: [ipwave] RFC8902 - TLS with ITS Certificates, EXPERIMENTAL, and the one PKI and one Internet

>> If there were a need to discuss that RFC then it would have been
discussed publicly when it was an I-D.

>> This is not a negative remark, and all RFCs that go through detailed
reviews, as this one has, are useful.  Better have an RFC on the topic
rather than silence.




In my memory, the RFC was presented by William in IPWAVE GROUP in 2019. But IPWAVE did not host this activity as it was outside the charter as currently written. Although there was a possibility to rewrite the charter, but we had to wait until the two current documents being worked on by IPWAVE had been completed so as not to defocus the group.





If your conclusion is that « this RFC is not really relevant to ITS", this is hard to agree with because the large deployment of C-ITS. As mentioned by William before, ITS deployments across the US, Europe and Australia are currently using 1609.2 certificates.



Mounira