Re: [Ntp] NTPv5 draft

Miroslav Lichvar <mlichvar@redhat.com> Wed, 09 December 2020 15:35 UTC

Return-Path: <mlichvar@redhat.com>
X-Original-To: ntp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ntp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABFB43A0DE8 for <ntp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 07:35:42 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.121
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.121 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=redhat.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id s64wHf2JcpXF for <ntp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 07:35:41 -0800 (PST)
Received: from us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com (us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com [216.205.24.124]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DD1053A0DFC for <ntp@ietf.org>; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 07:35:40 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=redhat.com; s=mimecast20190719; t=1607528139; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=t3EbOehdoj3Q/2Q9BBBNEEPUyXaxPeyfYGWZ+9UhB4k=; b=TsqnMVTKSiKiWfvRYNmQotPLIbiE6tcFNvPr+RuI/V9h0G4ASU2o5Q4VZDYSvBYGvOyyo3 9JIZhkxY5WNkdPblo5hz67egrOS4Sx/bphxOazmq529H7bKtjIK9dyr1A4X+YP7MqLD1y1 bXwC3dx29AyBnYO8+2B3uL1RZzvmv1w=
Received: from mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (mimecast-mx01.redhat.com [209.132.183.4]) (Using TLS) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP id us-mta-315-nmT05GiRO4KNGMZRIwDrsQ-1; Wed, 09 Dec 2020 10:35:38 -0500
X-MC-Unique: nmT05GiRO4KNGMZRIwDrsQ-1
Received: from smtp.corp.redhat.com (int-mx02.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 19905190A7BF; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 15:35:33 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from localhost (holly.tpb.lab.eng.brq.redhat.com [10.43.134.11]) by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1734460C6F; Wed, 9 Dec 2020 15:35:31 +0000 (UTC)
Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2020 16:35:29 +0100
From: Miroslav Lichvar <mlichvar@redhat.com>
To: "Salz, Rich" <rsalz=40akamai.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Cc: James <james.ietf@gmail.com>, "ntp@ietf.org" <ntp@ietf.org>, Dieter Sibold <dsibold.ietf@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20201209153529.GG2352378@localhost>
References: <E0159612-5D83-4A0E-BBD1-1D75C0B49226@akamai.com> <20201207153444.GO2352378@localhost> <1204B871-7728-45DA-B628-8F79BD074A96@akamai.com> <20201208095046.GT2352378@localhost> <D15AF5B4-F976-44D6-B8E7-986E3B8CE23D@akamai.com> <20201208150725.GX2352378@localhost> <6d7daa5e-8537-a3a5-a5c3-2468be4c2918@gmail.com> <20201209083800.GY2352378@localhost> <bcec8d14-9af9-96c1-7e71-39569cb7b0ed@gmail.com> <51D0EEC3-F30E-4A0F-9DBA-B8D2A8CFA959@akamai.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <51D0EEC3-F30E-4A0F-9DBA-B8D2A8CFA959@akamai.com>
X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.79 on 10.5.11.12
Authentication-Results: relay.mimecast.com; auth=pass smtp.auth=CUSA124A263 smtp.mailfrom=mlichvar@redhat.com
X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0
X-Mimecast-Originator: redhat.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Disposition: inline
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ntp/B5J8dZiwIxevoHNtKOzm8LIkgn0>
Subject: Re: [Ntp] NTPv5 draft
X-BeenThere: ntp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: <ntp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ntp>, <mailto:ntp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ntp/>
List-Post: <mailto:ntp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ntp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ntp>, <mailto:ntp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2020 15:35:43 -0000

On Wed, Dec 09, 2020 at 02:56:55PM +0000, Salz, Rich wrote:
>     > Now, suddenly people talk about some non-specific issues that have an
>     > unknown solution. Where were you when NTS was designed? And why does
>     > it need to be solved in NTPv5?
> 
> NTS was designed to add security features to an existing protocol without disrupting it.
> 
> NTPv5 should be designed with security built-in from the beginning.

That implies you think NTPv4+NTS has some security issues that could
be addressed in NTPv5. Unfortunately, I still don't understand what it
is.

> Miroslav's draft is just an individual viewpoint.  I would be against the WG adopting it because the author seems to be opposed to the design requirement I just mentioned.

That's ok. As I explained before, my proposal is an evolution of NTPv4
not trying to fix what's not broken. If I was designing it from
scratch, I don't think I'd get something radically different.

-- 
Miroslav Lichvar